New J-10 thread II

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aquilis182

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how can a used mig-29 or su-27 be better than a new J-10? The ones operating by Iranians are pretty much the oldest ones. J-10s routinely take down multiple su-30s in China's mock combats.

Iread somewere (not quiet sure but maybe right here at sinodefence.com) than the PLAAF already test the J-10s against the J-11s (chineses maded SU-30KK) in mock aerial combat, the J-10s prevail over the J-11s in all the practices The SU-30s are better than the SU-27 and much more than the Mig-29s. My point is than if the J-10s proove to be better than the J-11s they are surley better than the Mig-29s or the SU-27s
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Iread somewere (not quiet sure but maybe right here at sinodefence.com) than the PLAAF already test the J-10s against the J-11s (chineses maded SU-30KK) in mock aerial combat, the J-10s prevail over the J-11s in all the practices The SU-30s are better than the SU-27 and much more than the Mig-29s. My point is than if the J-10s proove to be better than the J-11s they are surley better than the Mig-29s or the SU-27s

Not exactly. One will have to look at rules of engagement involved, and technical level of both sides. A Fokker Dr.1 won't beat a F-22 Raptor in traditional air to air combat, but if you change the rules in the exercise, you can make the Fokker win.
 

crobato

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Not exactly. One will have to look at rules of engagement involved, and technical level of both sides. A Fokker Dr.1 won't beat a F-22 Raptor in traditional air to air combat, but if you change the rules in the exercise, you can make the Fokker win.

You can say that with one exercise, but not from a whole host of exercises from mid 2003 till today involving many military regional commands, different J-10 and Flanker regiments.
 

tphuang

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Not exactly. One will have to look at rules of engagement involved, and technical level of both sides. A Fokker Dr.1 won't beat a F-22 Raptor in traditional air to air combat, but if you change the rules in the exercise, you can make the Fokker win.

they tried many scenarios (including many that favoured flankers) and J-10 crushed flankers in WVR and BVR. From all we read, the result was not even close. Just look at how long it took J-11B to come out. I bet they made a lot of changes(upgrades) from even their original J-11B design to compete with J-10.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
they tried many scenarios (including many that favoured flankers) and J-10 crushed flankers in WVR and BVR. From all we read, the result was not even close. Just look at how long it took J-11B to come out. I bet they made a lot of changes(upgrades) from even their original J-11B design to compete with J-10.

Sounds more like issues with how advanced the electronics are between the Su-27's and J-10's. Remember, most of China's Su-27 fleet is copy of the original Su-27SK, which is a export version of the Su-27 containing 1970's vintage electronics. If we accept that the J-10 is equivalent to the later blocks of the F-16, which has late 1980's to early 1990's electronics, it is not surprising one side is winning.
 

tphuang

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Sounds more like issues with how advanced the electronics are between the Su-27's and J-10's. Remember, most of China's Su-27 fleet is copy of the original Su-27SK, which is a export version of the Su-27 containing 1970's vintage electronics. If we accept that the J-10 is equivalent to the later blocks of the F-16, which has late 1980's to early 1990's electronics, it is not surprising one side is winning.
it's against mkk too, which has more advanced avionics. J-10s were out numbered in a lot of scenarios, so it basically had to be better in flight performance, avionics and stealthiness.
 

aquilis182

New Member
Not exactly. One will have to look at rules of engagement involved, and technical level of both sides. A Fokker Dr.1 won't beat a F-22 Raptor in traditional air to air combat, but if you change the rules in the exercise, you can make the Fokker win.

Yeah... put rules like, the F22 cant take off the airfield and let the Dr.1 Fokker to drop a bomb... surely the Fokker win. now let's be serious, we obviously are talking about RoE in modern air warefare, both jetfighter in equal footing, no advantages for either side, thats how the U.S. Air Force measure how good the jetfighter is I bet the PLAAF do something like it too, whe I read the article of the J10 vs J11 I dind read anything that make me think one of them was holding back, The pilot's skills is another unvaluable thing in the air battle but somethime even that can overwhelm circumstances. I read another article of the India coupe'04 USAF and Indian AF challenge each the other, the USAF where using F-15s (by that time theres no F-22s in service yet) india was ussing SU-30s Scince SU-30s are more maneuverable than the F-15s and the mock aerial combat was just at clouse quarters The F-15s where unable to exploit their avionics and weapon systems sightly more advanced than the SU-30s
even better trainned USAF pilot lost horrible against the SU-30s
funny the results remain classified for a short time but they released like a year ago, USAF trade 9 F-15s for each SU-30s
Maneuverability is Vital in clouse air combat, I imagine than the smaller and lighter J10s manage to outmaneuver the larger and heavier J11s, besides the wight and size, theres another more important thing for maneuverability... the aerodinamics, both planes seems to both very aerodinamic, so I gess the other 2 factors where more desesive for give the victory to the J10s
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
according to USAF, future air combat is going to be quick,you are not going to see WW-2 or vietnam war close in "knife to knife hand combat"
 

flyzies

Junior Member
And they also said back then dogfighting was dead, all going to be done with missiles...no guns needed. We all know the result of that theory...
 
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