New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
Also something to consider, what is the maximum number of complete cars BYD can actually build? I believe they only have one or two auto production plants, so batteries/parts is a bigger part of their business than the actual cars. I think they barely have a fraction of the capacity of Toyota in China alone, let alone worldwide.

Unrelated to the latest news. I was looking into some PHEVs, and the current crop are so unremarkable. I can see how LI-ONE can sell so well despite being the only model in their lineup.

Most PHEV are built from ICE to PHEV, so the main powertrain is based on ICE with all the complexity of transmission, differentials, etc. etc. With it, you have smaller battery/Electric range and thus the extra cost of the EV powertrain is not very economical (Less than 50Km EV range).

Li is basically the only EV-oriented PHEV now that the Chevy Volt is no longer in production.

The question is that whether the ICE powertrain is worth putting in versus more batteries, and in most cases it is probably not, which explains the luxury price tag for the LI-ONE.
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You don't necessarily need an ICE power train for a series PHEV which can use a small ICE engine running at full efficiency all the time as a generator and without any mechanical connection to the wheels.

This takes advantage of the literal 10x higher energy density of chemical fuel over batteries for long trips while still allowing for a large battery for short cruises and reduced maintenance costs due to lower drivetrain complexity.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
BlackWindMnt said:
Maybe they will exchange some IP hydrogen will have its place in the world, but don't think it will be in the consumer car segment
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Potentially

Hydrogen will likely have 10% of the overall transport segment, but in trucks, planes, etc etc

But I think Chinese companies are aiming for all the of the Hydrogen IP and supply chain
China has about 85% of the electric vehicle supply chain
 
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dingyibvs

Senior Member
BlackWindMnt said:
Maybe they will exchange some IP hydrogen will have its place in the world, but don't think it will be in the consumer car segment
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Yeah, can't see it for personal vehicles. Perhaps for ships, planes, long-haul trucks. If hydrogen is successful in these fields and an ecosystem develops around it, I can see it being employed eventually in military systems e.g. tanks, APCs, etc. which may require a lot of electric power in the future for EM guns.
 
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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
dingyibvs said:
Yeah, can't see it for personal vehicles. Perhaps for ships, planes, long-haul trucks. If hydrogen is successful in these fields and an ecosystem develops around it, I can see it being employed eventually in military systems e.g. tanks, APCs, etc. which may require a lot of electric power in the future for EM guns.
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Interesting, how could you store the hydrogen ?

The basic principle was that in a passanger car the H2 could occupy relativly small space, considering the small energy requirement.

How could you use it in an airplane/freight turck ?
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Anlsvrthng said:
Interesting, how could you store the hydrogen ?

The basic principle was that in a passanger car the H2 could occupy relativly small space, considering the small energy requirement.

How could you use it in an airplane/freight turck ?
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Hydrogen has high specific energy (J/kg) but low energy density (J/L).

Large commercial vehicles are not space limit but rather weight limited.

Passenger cars are space limited more than weight limited (see how batteries weigh 10x more than a petrol fuel tank).
 
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dingyibvs

Senior Member
Anlsvrthng said:
Interesting, how could you store the hydrogen ?

The basic principle was that in a passanger car the H2 could occupy relativly small space, considering the small energy requirement.

How could you use it in an airplane/freight turck ?
Click to expand...

Compared to fossil fuels it would actually occupy a bit more space, but weigh less as the poster above pointed out. Overall I don't think it'll factor significantly into the calculus. Commercially its main advantage would be environmental friendliness, and militarily it would be more efficient conversion into electrical power.
 
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