New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is interesting news if true. The car would likely be a rebranded BYD with a Toyota badge. It can also open the way for Toyota EV to use BYD Blade batteries. Like Sam Evans here, I would personally prefer my EV to have LFP batteries for its safety and long life.



BYD to supply Walmart with EV trucks?

 

getready

Senior Member
Can anyone tell me wats the main rationale for byd partnerIng with Toyota instead of going alone.? It can’t be tech, byd is further ahead than Toyota in terms of ev? On
only reason I can think of is maybe taking advantage of Toyota dealers and network? Or saving costs?
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Can anyone tell me wats the main rationale for byd partnerIng with Toyota instead of going alone.? It can’t be tech, byd is further ahead than Toyota in terms of ev? On
only reason I can think of is maybe taking advantage of Toyota dealers and network? Or saving costs?

BYD isn't partnering with Toyota. It is Toyota who is partnering with BYD. It seems to be just a rebadged BYD vehicle.
As for why BYD does it, well it depends on a company's business model. BYD, similar to Samsung, seems to operate its business divisions in a competitive fashion. Perhaps having that Toyota badge will help them move more hardware. They probably see it as a low effort job with nearly guaranteed income. This is similar to, say, Samsung doing a Google Pixel phone.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
BYD isn't partnering with Toyota. It is Toyota who is partnering with BYD. It seems to be just a rebadged BYD vehicle.
As for why BYD does it, well it depends on a company's business model. BYD, similar to Samsung, seems to operate its business divisions in a competitive fashion. Perhaps having that Toyota badge will help them move more hardware. They probably see it as a low effort job with nearly guaranteed income. This is similar to, say, Samsung doing a Google Pixel phone.
@gelgoog bro if successful, Toyota may follow the sample of Apple and make use of its brand rather than produce them. Less operating cost equal more profit.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
BYD could say no. And try to sell its own car, under its own badge. But compared to toyota, is has almost zero footprint in Europe any many overseas markets. Trying to built an ecosystem for distribution on such a world scale and support takes at least a decade if not two. Getting new users to accept new brands is not easy. It'd take time even if there was no stigma attached to chinese products. And the political situation today is such that some level of stigma is still there. Perhaps not so much quality wise anymore, but definitely on the government level.

So... imagine then relying on Toyota's network for distribution, support, on toyota's brand relationship with its customers and the relationship toyota has with governments around the world. If BYD can get just a few percent of earnings over the cost it sells each such car system to toyota - that's potentially millions of such car systems per year. Within a very short timespan.

All the while BYD can still work on its own car distribution if it so desires. But income generation wise, this kind of a move can mean BYD earns much much more than any other chinese maker that tries to go into european markets alone, and in a shorter timeframe.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
BYD could say no. And try to sell its own car, under its own badge. But compared to toyota, is has almost zero footprint in Europe any many overseas markets. Trying to built an ecosystem for distribution on such a world scale and support takes at least a decade if not two. Getting new users to accept new brands is not easy. It'd take time even if there was no stigma attached to chinese products. And the political situation today is such that some level of stigma is still there. Perhaps not so much quality wise anymore, but definitely on the government level.

So... imagine then relying on Toyota's network for distribution, support, on toyota's brand relationship with its customers and the relationship toyota has with governments around the world. If BYD can get just a few percent of earnings over the cost it sells each such car system to toyota - that's potentially millions of such car systems per year. Within a very short timespan.

All the while BYD can still work on its own car distribution if it so desires. But income generation wise, this kind of a move can mean BYD earns much much more than any other chinese maker that tries to go into european markets alone, and in a shorter timeframe.
Also something to consider, what is the maximum number of complete cars BYD can actually build? I believe they only have one or two auto production plants, so batteries/parts is a bigger part of their business than the actual cars. I think they barely have a fraction of the capacity of Toyota in China alone, let alone worldwide.

Unrelated to the latest news. I was looking into some PHEVs, and the current crop are so unremarkable. I can see how LI-ONE can sell so well despite being the only model in their lineup.

Most PHEV are built from ICE to PHEV, so the main powertrain is based on ICE with all the complexity of transmission, differentials, etc. etc. With it, you have smaller battery/Electric range and thus the extra cost of the EV powertrain is not very economical (Less than 50Km EV range).

Li is basically the only EV-oriented PHEV now that the Chevy Volt is no longer in production.

The question is that whether the ICE powertrain is worth putting in versus more batteries, and in most cases it is probably not, which explains the luxury price tag for the LI-ONE.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Toyota does manufacture a lot of cars, but how many are EVs? They are licensing this for a reason.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
The car is meant for the Chinese market, at least initially, I believe. Toyota needs one now as they do not have a competitive one, not one with a 30,000 price tag.
 
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