New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
You mixed up between EREV and PHEV. Li Auto cars are so popular in China is because Li cars are mostly EREV Extended Range EVs.
Does toyota even offer EREV?

I clearly wrote EREV referring to Li.

The difference is just engineering. The consumer doesn’t care whether the gasoline engine drives the car or not. BYD PHEV sales are still quite significant.

EREV gasoline efficiency is actually bad relative to a hybrid drivetrain in highway conditions, I showed the comparison many pages before between Li L9 and Grand Highlander. It doesn’t make it bad overall (it is cheaper to implement), but it’s a trade off to consider.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
PEM fuel cells use platinum. It is why they are so expensive. Efforts to make them cheaper typically involve ways to reduce the amount of platinum in them. There are other types of fuel cells like SOFC fuel cells. SOFC uses ceramics instead and can even run not just on hydrogen but on natural gas as well. Natural gas is easier to store and much cheaper than hydrogen. But would you use brittle ceramics in an automotive engine? In practice SOFC can only be used in stationary applications.
 

Lethe

Captain
The difference is just engineering. The consumer doesn’t care whether the gasoline engine drives the car or not. BYD PHEV sales are still quite significant.

Per
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, BYD had a 51/49 EV/PHEV sales split within China in 2023. Which brings me to my question: are PHEVs in China being sold primarily on cost grounds (i.e. because they are cheaper than EVs) or because people want the additional range and flexibility of not having to rely on electric charging infrastructure?
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Per
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, BYD had a 51/49 EV/PHEV sales split within China in 2023. Which brings me to my question: are PHEVs in China being sold primarily on cost grounds (i.e. because they are cheaper than EVs) or because people want the additional range and flexibility of not having to rely on electric charging infrastructure?
I imagine it's a combination of a few problems:

1. not enough parking spaces which means limited charging spaces in urban areas
2. insufficient rural charging infrastructure
3. long charging times, which is inherent to EVs right now.

This leads to PHEVs being popualr because they can opportunistically use either BEV or gas car infrastructure depending on availability, value of time, etc.
 

Wrought

Junior Member
Registered Member
An article about Chinese industrial policy, and what it means for EV exports going forward.

In 2014 alone, more than 80,000 companies registered in China to enter the EV sector, more than doubling the previous year’s number of new registrants. The strategic emerging industry appeared to be a textbook cautionary tale of waste, corruption, overcapacity, vicious price wars and low profitability.

As a veteran practitioner of industrial policy, however, the Chinese government is familiar with this malaise and skilled at treating it. It began raising the bar for issuing production licences and withdrawing subsidies in phases. Vehicles with low driving ranges lost support first. The low-tech producers were either barred from entering the market or forced to exit it. Those who withstood both the price-war attrition and the government-engineered culling became ruthlessly efficient.

China’s well-rehearsed industrial policy can be staggeringly wasteful but still produce stunning results. This same pattern of fattening up companies with subsidies and protection and then cutting support and introducing market discipline to weed out the weak has already produced domestic and export juggernauts in steel, shipbuilding and solar panels.

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sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
I imagine it's a combination of a few problems:

1. not enough parking spaces which means limited charging spaces in urban areas
2. insufficient rural charging infrastructure
3. long charging times, which is inherent to EVs right now.

This leads to PHEVs being popualr because they can opportunistically use either BEV or gas car infrastructure depending on availability, value of time, etc.
I don't get why Chinese developers don't just build like 10 storeys of parking beneath the apartments like southeast asian developers. It's not like it's a lot more expensive
 
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