New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

Tyler said:

Most Chinese billionaires are very innovative. elon musk has no battery technology at all. Chinese billionaires like Nio's founder invented the battery swap concept, while BYD is a major battery maker to begin with. Alibaba is doing its part, as they are investing in cloud technology and RISC-V based chips, thereby moving away from potential US sanctions

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No, the battery swap concept was not invented by Nio's founder. An Israelite named Agassi first came up with the idea quite a number of years ago. His company , Better Place invested in China. But the idea did not gain traction then and the company went bankrupt. Maybe the idea was too early for its time then.

Sincho said:

No, the battery swap concept was not invented by Nio's founder. An Israelite named Agassi first came up with the idea quite a number of years ago. His company , Better Place invested in China. But the idea did not gain traction then and the company went bankrupt. Maybe the idea was too early for its time then.

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Nobody can really claim the idea of battery swapping.
It's just too simple.

It's about execution and engineering of the concept

AndrewS said:

Nobody can really claim the idea of battery swapping.
It's just too simple.

It's about execution and engineering of the

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Nobody can? That's a real sweeping statement from you. I read about the concept then when Agassi first came out with the idea. Any idea can be simple on hindsight. Did you also come out with the idea before Agassi?

voyager1 said:

Yes, state support DEFINETELY doesn't work in China. I hope the US doesn't follow this flawed model.

After all China is still poor having 2.8 billion people in poverty, no electricity, no space advances, no railways, no new cities, no NEV advances etc It has NOTHING

TOTAL FAILURE

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A highly readable book, , that explains its history and functioning.
The author sees current policies as a departure from past practice, rather than as part of the deep structures of Chinese socialism.

Powerful targeted industrial policies in China have been generally absent (1978-2005) and have sometimes been overbearing (2010-present), but they have never been a crucial component in explaining rapid Chinese economic growth. That doesn’t mean that government doesn’t matter, or that distinctive Chinese approaches have not been important: it does, and they have been. Indeed, it should be intuitively obvious that the impact of a large-scale fixed investment effort, massive investment in human resources, and the presence of thousands of growth-promoting local governments competing with each other will be much greater than the impact of government efforts to directly intervene in the sectoral development pattern of the economy. Of course, these are not mutually exclusively choices. But targeted industrial policy is still utterly unproven in terms of its impact on China’s development. It may turn out, 20 years from now, to have been a huge success, but as of today, there is very little evidence for its importance or success.

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The author thinks that China was well on its way to being a global technological powerhouse before the introduction of all of these industrial policies, thanks to its highly competitive manufacturing sector and skilled technical workforce. So to him, it is not obvious those risks were worth taking:

It is unclear to what extent Chinese policy-makers have considered the technological, economic, and international risks of their
industrial policies. It appears rather that policy-makers have been seduced by the vision of a technological revolution and a substantial re-ordering of global strategic relations and have rushed ahead with an aggressive and decisive round of industrial policies. At a minimum, this is an enormous gamble. As stated repeatedly in this essay, Chinese would in any case have emerged as a technology giant over the next decade or two. It is not necessarily beneficial to have government forcibly attempt to accelerate the process, creating substantial additional risk, waste, and conflict. Indeed, it may end up seriously retarding the global benefits that are potentially available from new technologies, particularly if the world ends up partitioned into competing technological blocks.

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But the Chinese government thought that the risks of not carrying out industrial policy were also great. And he does a good job of explaining the intellectual framework that has justified their large-scale interventions.

Sincho said:

Nobody can? That's a real sweeping statement from you. I read about the concept then when Agassi first came out with the idea. Any idea can be simple on hindsight. Did you also come out with the idea before Agassi?

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What is the first thing you do when your electrical gadget runs out of power? You either plus it in to charge or swap out of the batteries.

So I stand by my statement about the idea of battery swapping not being claimable

Sincho said:

Nobody can? That's a real sweeping statement from you. I read about the concept then when Agassi first came out with the idea. Any idea can be simple on hindsight. Did you also come out with the idea before Agassi?

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AndrewS said:

What is the first thing you do when your electrical gadget runs out of power? You either plus it in to charge or swap out of the batteries.

So I stand by my statement about the idea of battery swapping not being claimable

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Haha! You are stubborn.

voyager1 said:

Yep. Already seen how China can mobilise to damage Tesla Rep inside China. Some media coverage here, some convenient protest there, add some customer complaints salt and you got dinner.

China wont ban Tesla, but Tesla should also be aware of its position inside China

No1 tip for Tesla is to have as many Chinese suppliers as possible.
As long as you have Chinese suppliers, you are a high-profile company (discourage China's shenanigans), and you are on top of the field (most advanced), then China will let you take Chinese money

But there is 0 chance that China will let its internal market be dominated by a US company.

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There are two broad strategic goals that China set to allow Tesla to own a 100% EV business in China. One is to stimulate the market demand, what with Tesla's brand name and technology; the other is to help develop China's EV supply chain, which was part of the agreements with Tesla. With those in minds, China approved the Tesla deal and helped Tesla build the mega factory in Shanghai in record time. No one can even come close to beat that speed. Telsa's market cap grew at least 5x and Musk became the wealthest person in the world largely because of China.

The Chinese were inspired by the experience of having Apple operating in China, which helped China become the largest manufacturer of smartphones, developed the supply chain and catalyzed the birth and growth of a host of local Chinese smartphone brands competing in the global market.

If the growth of the smartphone industry had happened somewhat accidentally, the Chinese government has played a very deliberate and proactive role in cultivating and facilitating of the growth of EV industry. Its impact has already started to show.

Sincho said:

Haha! You are stubborn.

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I don't get what we are talking about.

All cars already have a battery.

When it is done, we replace the battery.

Last time I bought a car battery, it was at Canadian Tire.

The battery lasted longer than the car, as the car went kaput.

horse said:

I don't get what we are talking about.

All cars already have a battery.

When it is done, we replace the battery.

Last time I bought a car battery, it was at Canadian Tire.

The battery lasted longer than the car, as the car went kaput.

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This is not about replacing the battery when the battery dies. This is about swapping a new battery each time the charge runs out instead of recharging the battery.

For small items like torchlight, yes you either throw the batteries away or recharge if the batteries are rechargeable ones. But the batteries for an EV car are voluminous and very heavy. Normally you will not think of swapping the batteries for normal operation. And as far as I know, Agassi and his company Better Place were the first to be associated with this concept of battery swapping for EV cars.

horse said:

I don't get what we are talking about.

All cars already have a battery.

When it is done, we replace the battery.

Last time I bought a car battery, it was at Canadian Tire.

The battery lasted longer than the car, as the car went kaput.

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You do realize that you are supposed to get your car regularly serviced. That way they can easily do 400.000ks possibly 5.