New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

caudaceus said:

The year 2020 when I start reading pundits writing about China I realize that majority If not super majority are not worth reading.

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Yea, even esteemed publications have gone to shit.

voyager1 said:

Yep. Already seen how China can mobilise to damage Tesla Rep inside China. Some media coverage here, some convenient protest there, add some customer complaints salt and you got dinner.

No1 tip for Tesla is to have as many Chinese suppliers as possible.

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Oh yea, that shit was subtle as hell as social media influencer conduct their own testing on the brake problem and looking data on those Model 3s.

Hmmm, the Chinese suppliers can just as easily which to making parts for NIO, Hongqi or Arcfox. In that case Tesla did the Chinese a favor by whipping the suppliers into shape.

Tesla is not a normal car company, its venture with Space-X has a lot of military applications, so there are some real risks in having them dominate the Chinese market. I don't see their share going to zero, probably in the low teens.

steel21 said:

Tesla is not a normal car company, its venture with Space-X has a lot of military applications, so there are some real risks in having them dominate the Chinese market. I don't see their share going to zero, probably in the low teens.

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AFAIK Tesla cooperation with SpaceX is mostly about electrical batteries, and some(should be relatively very low) technical help on electrical engineering and software
So I wouldnt say that there is much military application here

Yep, market share is definetely not going to be zero. Tesla is bringing a lot of innovation so it is usefull to keep them around

IMO the biggest thing is Elon Musk, real shame that China doesn't have a guy of this caliber. However can you imagine a Chinese businessman pulling the same shenanigans towards the Chinese Gov as Elon did with the US lol

Thats why all these Chinese billionaires are mostly useless. They are hoarding all these billions and wont make radical investments to change the world

Hopefully Xi message to all these people counting their money has passed through their heads. Either invest towards innovation (note: no garbage R&D, looking at you Alibaba...) or "donate" money to the Gov to do it for you

voyager1 said:

AFAIK Tesla cooperation with SpaceX is mostly about electrical batteries, and some(should be relatively very low) technical help on electrical engineering and software
So I wouldnt say that there is much military application here

Yep, market share is definetely not going to be zero. Tesla is bringing a lot of innovation so it is usefull to keep them around

IMO the biggest thing is Elon Musk, real shame that China doesn't have a guy of this caliber. However can you imagine a Chinese businessman pulling the same shenanigans towards the Chinese Gov as Elon did with the US lol

Thats why all these Chinese billionaires are mostly useless. They are hoarding all these billions and wont make radical investments to change the world

Hopefully Xi message to all these people counting their money has passed through their heads. Either invest towards innovation (note: no garbage R&D, looking at you Alibaba...) or "donate" money to the Gov to do it for you

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Most Chinese billionaires are very innovative. elon musk has no battery technology at all. Chinese billionaires like Nio's founder invented the battery swap concept, while BYD is a major battery maker to begin with. Alibaba is doing its part, as they are investing in cloud technology and RISC-V based chips, thereby moving away from potential US sanctions

Tyler said:

Most Chinese billionaires are very innovative. elon musk has no battery technology at all. Chinese billionaires like Nio's founder invented the battery swap concept, while BYD is a major battery maker to begin with. Alibaba is doing its part, as they are investing in cloud technology and RISC-V based chips, thereby moving away from potential US sanctions

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Elon himself jumbstarted the electric vehicle revolution.

Then Elon himself again jumbstarted the reusability of rockets revolution. Mind you, he was so committed that he had invested his whole wealth in SpaceX and he almost got bankrupted

I challenge you to show me a Chinese billionaire who is using HIS money personally, to revolutionize 2 entire industries by himself

voyager1 said:

Elon himself jumbstarted the electric vehicle revolution.

Then Elon himself again jumbstarted the reusability of rockets revolution. Mind you, he was so committed that he had invested his whole wealth in SpaceX and he almost got bankrupted

I challenge you to show me a Chinese billionaire who is using HIS money personally, to revolutionize 2 entire industries by himself

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There are far more variety of technologies in the world, than these EV and reusable rockets. China had sold more EV, even before elon started tesla. Reusable rockets is an unreliable technology.

Tyler said:

Reusable rockets is an unreliable technology.

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If thats the caliber of your thinking then I wont even bother to respond anymore. Yes SpaceX is unreliable and NASA is bringing its crew on the ISS on already used Falcon 9 rockets. Yes how very smart of you. Bye

voyager1 said:

I challenge you to show me a Chinese billionaire who is using HIS money personally, to revolutionize 2 entire industries by himself

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Pdd and bytedance founders recently resigned and they both have interest in Biology/life sciences. Let's see, who knows they might invest in Biotech companies later on.

voyager1 said:

AFAIK Tesla cooperation with SpaceX is mostly about electrical batteries, and some(should be relatively very low) technical help on electrical engineering and software
So I wouldnt say that there is much military application here

Yep, market share is definetely not going to be zero. Tesla is bringing a lot of innovation so it is usefull to keep them around

IMO the biggest thing is Elon Musk, real shame that China doesn't have a guy of this caliber. However can you imagine a Chinese businessman pulling the same shenanigans towards the Chinese Gov as Elon did with the US lol

Thats why all these Chinese billionaires are mostly useless. They are hoarding all these billions and wont make radical investments to change the world

Hopefully Xi message to all these people counting their money has passed through their heads. Either invest towards innovation (note: no garbage R&D, looking at you Alibaba...) or "donate" money to the Gov to do it for you

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I think you trend toward some energetic arguments and rationales.

Elon is not magic. He is a brand, and an erratic brand at that.

Elon, Jobs and Gates were all canonized beyond their mortal being. In reality, there is a limit to "greatness". The skill in a true leader is recognizing talent and managing his executive team, the real innovation is done in the lab 4-5 echelons below Jobs, Elon and Gates.

Real technology is build on fundamental research and shitload of testing, there is no light bulb.

How do you know China doesnt have anyone in Elon's caliber? There are plenty of hard working people of all calibers in a population as large as 1.4 billion. The real question you are perhaps asking is why no one is a publicity hog and showman as Elon and Jobs, perhaps its not in their cultural heritage, but that does not mean shits not getting done.

How about William Li from NIO? He seems passionate, just minus the weed smoking and Tweets.

Sorry if I sound like an old man.....

caudaceus said:

Pdd and bytedance founders recently resigned and they both have interest in Biology/life sciences. Let's see, who knows they might invest in Biotech companies later on.

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Yep saw that. I was actually impressed by how fast these guys moved. Young people nowdays are smarter than the usual old relics lol

I hope that theese 2 people's move will encourage more billionaires to follow their lead and try to enter diverse industries