New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

voyager1 said:

Elon himself jumbstarted the electric vehicle revolution.

Then Elon himself again jumbstarted the reusability of rockets revolution. Mind you, he was so committed that he had invested his whole wealth in SpaceX and he almost got bankrupted

I challenge you to show me a Chinese billionaire who is using HIS money personally, to revolutionize 2 entire industries by himself

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Tesla was NOT started by Elon.

Space X would be nothing without the DC-X clipper technology that NASA handed to Space X.

Elon is the face of an evolution, not revolution. The image is a result of brand management and his own eccentricity.

Ren Zhenfei used his own money in the founding of Huawei.

steel21 said:

How about William Li from NIO? He seems passionate, just minus the weed smoking and Tweets.

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William Li is definetely a person to watch. He is a visionary and a businessman, which is a rare occurance in these times.

Hopefully he can continue his endeavors in NIO to make it the best in the world.

And Leaders are always the most important people. Why India's millions of STEM people cant do much to benefit India?

Its because their leaders have other things in mind for them and they are hindered by these policies. A good leader will choose the right people for his.company, instill a work culture and vision (E.g SpaceX, work like slaves, but we are definetely going to Mars) and then they must let these people run theirbprojects with minimal outside interference.

steel21 said:

Tesla was NOT started by Elon.

Space X would be nothing without the DC-X clipper technology that NASA handed to Space X.

Elon is the face of an evolution, not revolution. The image is a result of brand management and his own eccentricity.

Ren Zhenfei used his own money in the founding of Huawei.

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Yes Tesla was failing before Elon took the reins. You are just playing with the words here. Elon made Tesla a success, he didn't just buy a successful company from the start.

And what about SpaceX?
NASA tech was rusting away because noone was touching it because they were afraid of spending the money required. So SpaceX came in spent their own money, Elon almost got bankrupted and they managed to prove that the tech works

Now my question to you is, where is China's SpaceX? I hope you will give a good answer and not that laughable statement by the other guy who said that SpaceX tech was unreliable lol

And yes, Ren Zhenfei is THE man. IMO Huawei is the best Chinese company right now

voyager1 said:

Yep saw that. I was actually impressed by how fast these guys moved. Young people nowdays are smarter than the usual old relics lol

I hope that theese 2 people's move will encourage more billionaires to follow their lead and try to enter diverse industries

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If you think about it, the dynamic of Chinese billionaires is very swift even compared to the US.
10 years ago richest guy are property developers
5 years ago Baidu founder was among the top richest and nobody ever heard about PDD, Bytedance, BYD and CATL
Today, China's richest guy sells mineral water lol

voyager1 said:

William Li is definetely a person to watch. He is a visionary and a businessman, which is a rare occurance in these times.

Hopefully he can continue his endeavors in NIO to make it the best in the world.

And Leaders are always the most important people. Why India's millions of STEM people cant do much to benefit India?

Its because their leaders have other things in mind for them and they are hindered by these policies. A good leader will choose the right people for his.company, instill a work culture and vision (E.g SpaceX, work like slaves, but we are definetely going to Mars) and then they must let these people run theirbprojects with minimal outside interference.

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India's richest are rent-seeking tycoons that rarely put money on R&D. If you think about it, why there's no Ambani equivalent in China? Because China's Oil and Gas enterprises (Ambani's golden goose) are not private.

voyager1 said:

Yes Tesla was failing before Elon took the reins. You are just playing with the words here. Elon made Tesla a success, he didn't just buy a successful company from the start.

And what about SpaceX?
NASA tech was rusting away because noone was touching it because they were afraid of spending the money required. So SpaceX came in spent their own money, Elon almost got bankrupted and they managed to prove that the tech works

Now my question to you is, where is China's SpaceX? I hope you will give a good answer and not that laughable statement by the other guy who said that SpaceX tech was unreliable lol

And yes, Ren Zhenfei is THE man. IMO Huawei is the best Chinese company right now

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Its a different culture.

Chinese born in the 1950-1970s had different ways of coping. So those that came up the ranks had different instincts.

Give it another 10-20 years, when the post 80s and 90s generation head up large companies, then the culture will change again.

The people, culture and talents are a result of their respective development levels and prosperity, they contribute and mold the next generation by laying down the foundation.

steel21 said:

Its a different culture.

Chinese born in the 1950-1970s had different ways of coping. So those that came up the ranks had different instincts.

Give it another 10-20 years, when the post 80s and 90s generation head up large companies, then the culture will change again.

The people, culture and talents are a result of their respective development levels and prosperity, they contribute and mold the next generation by laying down the foundation.

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Thumps up because I agree with you. I am just annoyed when some people blindly defend or attack something when they are clearly not knowledgable regarding the subject matter

I agree that the people who were born in the past in China had more things to worry than this fancy stuff. This probably shaped their thinking and their later decisions in life.

Not that I am criticising them though, the China today is the result of the tireless work these people have done so far

IMO what is more exciting is that the young Chinese have for the first time in centuries start from an almost level ground to the West and have all the doors open to them now. And so far, these young people are extremely vibrant, innovative and smart.

Countless sacrifices, tears and blood has NOT been for nothing. The 2020-2030 will see this new generation start making a very small impact. But by 2030+ China will be an unstoppable rocket to greatness

Anyway, thats enough for now. This was an enjoyable conversation but we have veered offtopic

voyager1 said:

If thats the caliber of your thinking then I wont even bother to respond anymore. Yes SpaceX is unreliable and NASA is bringing its crew on the ISS on already used Falcon 9 rockets. Yes how very smart of you. Bye

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elon is just a bitcoin flipper. As China cracks down on bitcoin mining, you will see elon frantically pumping bitcoin.
China's Nio and BYD are now taking market share away from tesla. China has always been the largest EV market, way before elon had a clue.

voyager1 said:

Elon himself jumbstarted the electric vehicle revolution.

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Actually, China independently jumpstarted its own electric vehicle revolution, starting some 2 decades ago.

But China started with buses first, which makes sense.
From what I recall, China was using a lot more electric batteries than Tesla was.

Buses gain more from the lower operating costs of electricity versus the internal combustion engine.
They spend a lot more time on the road compared to a private car.

Then as the economics of electric vehicles improved, they moved to taxis and private cars in China.

We can legitimately credit Wan Gang for having a larger impact on the global electric vehicle industry than Elon Musk.

voyager1 said:

Yes Tesla was failing before Elon took the reins. You are just playing with the words here. Elon made Tesla a success, he didn't just buy a successful company from the start.

And what about SpaceX?
NASA tech was rusting away because noone was touching it because they were afraid of spending the money required. So SpaceX came in spent their own money, Elon almost got bankrupted and they managed to prove that the tech works

Now my question to you is, where is China's SpaceX? I hope you will give a good answer and not that laughable statement by the other guy who said that SpaceX tech was unreliable lol

And yes, Ren Zhenfei is THE man. IMO Huawei is the best Chinese company right now

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Remember that 10 years ago prior to SpaceX, China had the lowest launch costs in the world.

So why initiate a new and disruptive technology unnecessarily?

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I would say that China can still be a very fast-follower in space rockets.
Then pump in huge amounts of capital and R&D spending to drive everyone else out of the industry.
That is pretty standard for companies around the world.

But the key is to develop a reusable Methalox engine which is competitive in launch costs.
China can skip reusable Kerosene engines that SpaceX put so much time and effort into.

Then the situation will sort itself out given a little time.

I imagine it will be like watching the birth of Boeing or Airbus - back when planes were still new and glamourous.


Anyway, back on topic.