New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
tphuang said:
How is a CATL plant in the USA more risky than in Mexico? The entire point of having a plant in Mexico is to serve the US market. I spent 2 5 day trips in Mexico City recently. Guess how many electric cars I saw? 1, just 1. The only reason you would have a battery factory in Mexico is to serve American cars.
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Why build an advanced factory in enemy's territory? Why build up their domestic supply chain, train specialised workers for the enemy?

I prefer x1000 times that this factory is built in a non-western, non-enemy state which we also look to develop our relations.

Besides, Mexico has NAFTA with the US which means that CATL can access the American market without needing to physically place any factory there.

tphuang said:
They have to build factories in America to calm the political tension of this issue
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What to "calm" political tension?. The US is an enemy state hell-bent on destroying China. There is no way or need to "calm" that political tension

tphuang said:
You don't need a battery factory in Mexico to be able to sell cars there.
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As mentioned, better to help a neutral country than help the enemy. Whatever else you are writing about US attraction to Chinese FDI is invalidated by what I just wrote.

TLDR: The US is an enemy country and as such we should avoid helping it at all times when possible. Mexico is perfectly acceptable investment place, the government there will be invested in their success instead of waging daily smear campaigns against it

I can see the US "spy" allegations from a mile away already. "Omg!!! Chinese batteries are spying us, ban them now!"
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Overbom said:
Why build an advanced factory in enemy's territory? Why build up their domestic supply chain, train specialised workers for the enemy?
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because you are getting American automakers to rely on Chinese suppliers. I don't know what kind of specialized workers you are thinking of, but these will be mostly final assembly and not engineering jobs. This will also likely to allow them to access American Lithium mining deposits.

Overbom said:
I prefer x1000 times that this factory is built in a non-western, non-enemy state which we also look to develop our relations.

Besides, Mexico has NAFTA with the US which means that CATL can access the American market without needing to physically place any factory there.
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You can prefer a lot of things, but American people are not Chinese people's enemies. American gov't can cut off Mexico at any point. Trump almost did that multiple times.

Overbom said:
What to "calm" political tension?. The US is an enemy state hell-bent on destroying China. There is no way or need to "calm" that political tension
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American gov't is going to welcome any Chinese manufacturers to come and create manufacturing jobs. They do not like you building jobs in Mexico and having product shipped over. BYD's Lancaster factory is a great example of a Chinese company doing well in America and securing favor with local government.

Overbom said:
As mentioned, better to help a neutral country than help the enemy. Whatever else you are writing about US attraction to Chinese FDI is invalidated by what I just wrote.

TLDR: The US is an enemy country and as such we should avoid helping it at all times when possible. Mexico is perfectly acceptable investment place, the government there will be invested in their success instead of waging daily smear campaigns against it

I can see the US "spy" allegations from a mile away already. "Omg!!! Chinese batteries are spying us, ban them now!"
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Again, BYD is doing great in Lancaster. CATL needs to make sure that it can adequately supply Ford and Tesla with batteries. And the best way to do is that by building a factory in America like LG and Panasonic have done.
 
P

pmc

Major
Registered Member
tphuang said:
hmm, BYD has had a huge factory in Lancaster California for many years. It has the support of the local community and the support of Californian gov't. That entire region is buying BYD buses to support BYD. Americans love foreign companies building factories in America and creating jobs. Americans hate American companies shipping jobs abroad.

You don't need a battery factory in Mexico to be able to sell cars there.
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do you have productivity figure for this factory?. i dont see how many buses per year this factory is producing. they have spend close to decade there.
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O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
tphuang said:
because you are getting American automakers to rely on Chinese suppliers. I don't know what kind of specialized workers you are thinking of, but these will be mostly final assembly and not engineering jobs. This will also likely to allow them to access American Lithium mining deposits.


You can prefer a lot of things, but American people are not Chinese people's enemies. American gov't can cut off Mexico at any point. Trump almost did that multiple times.


American gov't is going to welcome any Chinese manufacturers to come and create manufacturing jobs. They do not like you building jobs in Mexico and having product shipped over. BYD's Lancaster factory is a great example of a Chinese company doing well in America and securing favor with local government.


Again, BYD is doing great in Lancaster. CATL needs to make sure that it can adequately supply Ford and Tesla with batteries. And the best way to do is that by building a factory in America like LG and Panasonic have done.
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I respect your opinion but I disagree. The way I see it, choosing the US over Mexico is detrimental to China's interests. US opposition to China is due to structural differences. An extra factory or 2 there doesn't matter

Lets leave it at that
 
supercat

supercat

Major
Overbom said:
I respect your opinion but I disagree. The way I see it, choosing the US over Mexico is detrimental to China's interests. US opposition to China is due to structural differences. An extra factory or 2 there doesn't matter

Lets leave it at that
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Yes, let's leave it like that. I suspect CATL will build multiple factories in North America, so let's not overestimate the importance of the location of the first factory.

Isn't cylindrical EV batteries like the 4680, which probably cannot use the CTP technology like the prismatic cells, DOA?
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550479531164712961

One of Bocom International's analysts thinks that China's NEV penetration rate will reach 34% in 2023.

BOCOM says XPeng, NIO, and Li Auto will stand out naming the 3 key factors​

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CATL will mass-produce the magnesium-containing M3P battery next year, which is somewhat different from the lithium magnesium iron phosphate (LMFP) batteries that some other Chinese battery makers are developing.
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vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
tphuang said:
hmm, BYD has had a huge factory in Lancaster California for many years. It has the support of the local community and the support of Californian gov't. That entire region is buying BYD buses to support BYD. Americans love foreign companies building factories in America and creating jobs. Americans hate American companies shipping jobs abroad.

You don't need a battery factory in Mexico to be able to sell cars there.
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The West just confiscated all Russian assets (public and private) and you want Chinese companies invest in Western countries? Chinese SOEs are already shedding assets in the West
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

I saw a Tesla fanboy YouTube video and the guy was talking about how Chinese EVs were rip-offs of Tesla. He pointed to two Chinese startup companies personally I've never heard and they do look like Teslas but how about all the rest that are more established, different, and selling? Not a word. So was this guy trying to intentionally make it look that was the entire EV industry in China? I see videos on YouTube talking about top EVs coming and they don't mentions any Chinese EVs but they do mention Japanese and Koreans when by what I've been hearing are late in the game. You better believe there are people and countries lobbying to prevent Chinese EVs from being sold in the US.
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
vincent said:
The West just confiscated all Russian assets (public and private) and you want Chinese companies invest in Western countries? Chinese SOEs are already shedding assets in the West
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Companies can't plan their futures based on possibility of a war. If there is a war that breaks out, the American auto market will no longer be available to Chinese automaker and battery makers. So, a plant in Mexico would be just as useless as a plant in America in the case.

Why did BYD use Yuan plus and not atto 3 in Costa Rica?
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It's the same model.

do you have productivity figure for this factory?. i dont see how many buses per year this factory is producing. they have spend close to decade there
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Don't have the exact figures. They build a lot of things here now. buses, school bus, trucks, refuse trucks, forklift...

It's gotten quite big. Here is a recent tour of it
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They are building delivery vehicles for Nuro
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Here is my in depth look at the Lancaster plant from a while back.

New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

Given the talk of autonomous/smart driving dominating the next generation of automobiles in China, it's quite interesting that DJI will be mass producing EVs with SAIC-Wuling https://technode.com/2022/06/10/chinese-drone-maker-dji-will-soon-see-its-in-car-system-in-a-mass-produced-ev/ It seems...
www.sinodefenceforum.com

The biggest orders they received was earlier this year for 200 trucks
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That factory right now is close to maxing out in space and production. They probably need a new factory when they enter the PV market.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
tphuang said:
Companies can't plan their futures based on possibility of a war. If there is a war that breaks out, the American auto market will no longer be available to Chinese automaker and battery makers. So, a plant in Mexico would be just as useless as a plant in America in the case.
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Xiaomi and BBK didn’t do diligence in India, look what happened to them.

Even if CATL’s Mexico factory can no longer serve the American market, they still own the assets and serve other markets.
 
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