New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

ougoah said:

Tesla's autopilot doesn't work. It's not hard to be better than Tesla. L1 and L2 autonomous features in Lexus and many many (most Chinese brands now haha) cars have superior autonous than Tesla.

Elon talked about fsd for decades when the engineers knew he was miles away and other makers far closer. As with most things American it's 99 hype and talk, 1 unit of substance.

Merc autopilot is better than Tesla. Even xpeng's second rate autonomous is better than tesla. A Tesla can't handle one hour long trip without driver having to step in.

Tesla autopilot contributed to more accidents than all other autopilots out together and adjusted for numbers sold and in use. Almost every independent tester had to step in at some point. It's pathetically bad and a joke to call even L2. But they are certainly trying the hardest and after Merc, have been pouring the most money into this. Elon doesn't like lidar and wants to go with visual base okay that could be promising and allow them to come out with a superior ecosystem of fsd tech but elon is the world's greatest hype man.

Don't compare Tesla's autonomous with makes like Nio, baidu, Mercedes... Indeed Huawei and the carmakers using Huawei tech.

Tesla is 99% hype and marketing, 1% talent. The only thing worth supporting about Tesla is the fact that it is so dependent on china for battery technologies and even supply (giga shanghai is far and wide Tesla biggest producer and money maker) most Tesla's sold outside USA are made in China. If it weren't for that even the income made by Catl and byd for supplying Tesla batteries isn't worth the trouble. They can get F-ed.

Tesla fanboys (note not ev fanboys although sometimes crosses over) are the worst. One can start by searching up "solving the money problem" tsla share shill on YouTube to know what I mean. Zero intelligence, zero insight, all the usual wishy washy drivel those types are good at.

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tphuang said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548828932987707392

This imo is a terrible move by CATL. It's one thing for an American company to build a factory right across the border to Texas to supply America. It's another thing for a Chinese company too. If I was advising CATL, I'd slap them upside down right now. Because they clearly have no idea the political situation in America and views toward shipping of jobs across the Southern border.

And even aside from that, they will be dealing in a country that has no control of its northern half. Yes, I've been to Mexico several times. It's one thing for American companies that have had years of dealing with producing things in Mexico. Quite another thing for a Chinese company that has never dealt with the Mexican cartels. Yes, they might save a little on labor and delivery cost, but just wait when the Republicans decide they want to close the southern border right before the midterms.

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henrik said:

Most tesla fanatics do not even realize that their batteries are made by panasonic and CATL. They would cast doubts on CATLs newest Kirin batteries, claiming that their own batteries are better. They probably do not realize the both panasonic and CATL are suppliers of their batteries.

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dingyibvs said:

Mexico can be a scary place for people from safer places like the US and of course China, but compared to many other places around the world where Chinese companies operate, it's practically paradise. As for Republicans closing the border, they probably won't stop shipments of batteries, which most likely will go to a very Republican state of Texas given that's where the Austin gigafactory is at. Even if they did, there's plenty of demand elsewhere in the world and they can be exported to say Europe or even back to China. Not very efficient, of course, but it won't be a death sentence for the factory. I think the upsides outweigh the downsides. I mean, why should they let LG and Panasonic have free reign in one of the biggest and most lucrative auto markets in the world? CATL can potentially crush the competitors before they're Huawei'd, and become unbannable solar panel-style.

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ougoah said:

Don't compare Tesla's autonomous with makes like Nio, baidu, Mercedes... Indeed Huawei and the carmakers using Huawei tech.

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ansy1968 said:

@ougoah so bro do you believed that BYD will crush Huawei or Tesla? @tphuang had made his point BUT I respectfully disagree, so what's your view?

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tphuang said:

Well, this is where the Chinese government can come in. If it wants to export a lot of cheap EVs abroad like the Wuling mini EV, it needs to help other ASEAN countries build up their EV infrastructure.

In another 15 years, the vast majority of higher end cars will be EVs, because China and EU will have very few ICE cars left. Just think about the ripple effect in terms of what automakers produce and such.


Not at all. Tesla won't be competitive in the Chinese market in a few years. It's smart driving program is a disaster.

Huawei is looking to be a major supplier of smart driving technology and electric drive train technology to all the manufacturers in China. It seeks to get the higher revenue part of business while the automakers in China just builds cars for them.

Unless BYD can develop its own smart driving technology, it will be dependent on other companies like Huawei and Baidu. That's a terrible place to be if you are BYD.

And even aside from that, BYD also wants to sell its smart driving and electric motor technology to other manufacturers. Huawei is clearly a major competitor to BYD in this area.

BYD is valued at over $1 trillion RMB. It has plenty of resources. BYD also has a chance to be the highest market cap company in the world. But BYD has to dominate its home market first. That means, it will not rely on Huawei or any of these tech companies in its smart driving technology. It might work with them in short term. But long term, it will take what it can get from them and develop something better.


Again, BYD wants to dominate everyone. it doesn't want to work with Huawei/SMIC/Huahong. That's why it's producing its own chips and developing its own smart driving. BYD always strives to do everything by itself. As Taylor Ogan said:
"BYD will use its own semiconductor company to make its autonomous driving chips. Factories to be erected by BYD’s own construction company. Raw materials & final product to be transported by BYD’s own electric trucks & forklifts. PPE by BYD’s own masks, of course."

You should be cheering more for BYD than any of these IC companies. BYD doesn't have any of their political baggage right now. It's exporting and giving China great press in other countries. Rather than only employing people in Pearl River Delta and areas around Shanghai, it's employing people across China with factories in all these 2nd/3rd tier cities. It's bringing high quality manufacturing jobs all across China. BYD employs more people across China than Huawei right now. And as it expands, it will be China's largest private employer (by far)

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henrik said:

Many years ago, Buffett started to sell his PetroChina shares. He lost a lot of profits in that trade, as PetroChina went up big after he sold his shares.

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tphuang said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548828932987707392

This imo is a terrible move by CATL. It's one thing for an American company to build a factory right across the border to Texas to supply America. It's another thing for a Chinese company too. If I was advising CATL, I'd slap them upside down right now. Because they clearly have no idea the political situation in America and views toward shipping of jobs across the Southern border.

And even aside from that, they will be dealing in a country that has no control of its northern half. Yes, I've been to Mexico several times. It's one thing for American companies that have had years of dealing with producing things in Mexico. Quite another thing for a Chinese company that has never dealt with the Mexican cartels. Yes, they might save a little on labor and delivery cost, but just wait when the Republicans decide they want to close the southern border right before the midterms.

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NIO Capital reportedly leads investment in local computer CPU maker CIX Technology
NIO Capital led a recent funding round of about $50 million in ARM CPU startup CIX Technology, bringing the company's post-investment valuation to about $300 million, according to local media.

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NIO president explains how EV maker disrupts German automaker's pricing and how it sees current losses​

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NIO spotted mapping Portugal for the first time, the 13th European Market for the EV Maker​

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tphuang said:

I definitely think CATL should build one or more factories in North America if it wants to remain World #1. I just think the location they selected is terrible.

Keep in mind they picked Mexico because it's part of the new Nafta (USMCA). Now, what if Trump gets elected again in 2 years and decide that too many jobs are going to Mexico and America needs to add tariffs to Mexican imports or shut down the border?

CATL building factories in Mexico is not going to help them politically at all here. It's going to a huge negative.

Conversely, we see BYD doing very well in Lancaster, California with unionized labors and getting a lot of orders in America from bus, trucks and forklifts. There is very little negative press on BYD's Lancaster operation.


Indeed, this is very important to note. Huawei has devoted a lot of resources to this and nobody outside of Chinese EV following community has noticed it. Huawei will be a huge player in EV market.

More automakers in China will be producing cars for Huawei and Baidu.

That's why I consider Huawei to be a bigger threat in the Chinese market to BYD than Tesla or NIO or legacy auto.

I don't mean to dump on Tesla too much, since I drive a Model Y and it's the best car I've ever had. But I don't dare to use smart driving on it outside of highways. Even when I'm on highways, I can't relax when it's on smart driving mode. Musk really went cheap with the cameras, processors and no Lidars.


Sorry, that wasn't my point. I meant that BYD would want to crush Huawei. Not that it could. I don't consider Tesla to be BYD's competition. The FSD program is a disaster.

If it wants to be #1, BYD needs to do everything itself. It also would not want to be associated with Huawei due to sanctioning issues.

This is a good illustration of the growth of BYD.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548935110078402561

Average price per car has gone up from 134k RMB in 2020 to 151K in 2021 to 170k so far this year. This will keep going up as D9 goes into production. Its profit per car is going up dramatically. This will only get better as BYD goes higher end and reap the benefit of its expansion. If it can make this much money while still being at the beginning phase of its ramp up, just think how profitable it will be once it gets to 400k cars and 20 GWh batteries a month. And it will also try to sell its electric drive, dual motor and other technologies to other automakers.

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Findream in Jinan finally opens. There were videos of this with Wang chunfu making the announcement from Jinan. Apparently, it can produce 30 GWh of batteries and be delivered to external client. This might the first month they supply Tesla.

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more news of BYD getting order for 15 electric bus for Madrid.

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BYD Australia opening more experiences centers for Atto 3. Still delay issues with deliveries. Looks like the kiwis are going to get Atto 3 before the Aussies.

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Philister said:

I think not, the purpose here isn’t profit, but to crush American battery manufacturers

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