New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

henrik

Senior Member
Registered Member
Back to BYD. Seal is entering Australia in Q2 2023 as Atto 4. Keep in mind Atto 3 is Yuan Plus and Atto2 is Dolphin. I'd much rather they just keep Seal as the name
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You just watch the crowd around the Seal. Unreal. Model 3 has a serious challenger at hand
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Denza D9 is doing a lot better than I expected. Now up to over 20k orders and projected to add another 10k by end of June. Can't wait to hear the pre-sale figures on Seal. Delivery should start in August and production out of Changsha.. The BEV version will have 103 kwh battery with 6.8s 0 to 100 time.
They are coming up with too many models and different names for the same models. They should keep the same marketing names all over the world. It is like Apple vs xiaomi, which has many names for the same models. This is confusing for the consumers.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The entire Western world is in the process of being deindustrialized, thanks to a confluence of factors happening simultaneously in fatal synchronous alignment.
I will also add that the price of catalysts for gas cars is rising and so will the price of electric cars because of the increase in price of nickel.
I think there will be a decrease in consumer demand for buying new cars, which if you add the COVID-19 work at home and vehicles electronics shortages to it, might mean a lot of car companies will go belly up.

US gas guzzling vehicles will need replacement and business models like online retail might be hit. If the price of delivery of items increases, will people continue to use online retail as much?
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Can we talk about the strategic aspect of Chinese EV? Will it lead to deindustrialisatioj of Japan and Germany due to their reliance on auto industry?

It will also make others integrate with chinese economy tighter with them making attempt at decouple costlier.

It will make nation like gulf states and russia less relevant due to less fuel consumption in all places.

I think Japan and Germany are 2 different cases. German automakers are at least trying to transition to EVs. Japanese automakers are just pretending that it's not happening. Also, you have to build battery/car plant in Europe to sell to European market without tariffs. Japan is just a much smaller market. If Toyota/Honda loose the export market in China/ASEAN/Latin American countries, they are going to get crushed. Japan's home market will shrink due to their very low birth rates and large elderly population.

Not just a problem for Japan. SK will get crushed too. I think in another 20 years, the power balance in Asia will look quite a bit different than now. Japan and SK are going to get crushed by China and possibly ASEAN country growth.

They are coming up with too many models and different names for the same models. They should keep the same marketing names all over the world. It is like Apple vs xiaomi, which has many names for the same models. This is confusing for the consumers.
They are try to capture the whole market. Every price point. It's definitely a little messy right now. Although, it has helped them gain a lot of buyers.

I don't know how much of the current strategy is about taking the air out of everyone else. They certainly got a huge and growing order book that they have to deliver.

Just look at recent times. They got 3500 out of 13000 cars ordered at HK/macau/shenzhen autoshow. NEV registration for early part of May shows them with 1/3 of the NEV market share in China. Those are huge numbers.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
BYD's solar energy storage unit is doing great in North America with 1.6 GWh delivery so far this year. Again, so much power battery and energy storage capacity coming online for BYD this year.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
If you look at above, it should be able to use CTP/blade battery technology to eventually store 6 MWh in 16.66 sqm space. It supports 1500V and is liquid cooled

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
BYD continues to try to secure lithium supply for its ever hungry battery appetite. Keep in mind it had also recently secured $4 billion RMB lithium product with Shenzhen Chengxin. Makes sense for them to do this given CATL has it's own lithium projects also.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
policies coming out to boost rural NEV sales with possible subsidies. 6 BYD models, GAC Aion, Ora Good cat, wuling mini and numerous other mini EVs are part of this.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
I'm saying if you have a BYD car and another car that has Toyota plate but is built by BYD, why would a Chinese person pick the one with a Toyota plate and is more expensive? If Toyota only uses BYD Blade Battery and not the CTB or e3.0 technology, then it's not going to be as cheap to build or as good as the Ocean series.

There is so much helium behind BYD in China right now as we've seen in the Shenzhen auto show. Nobody is even going to Toyota corner.
Like I said, why are people buying the Supra over the Z4? It's the same car. I guess it's negligibly cheaper? I'm sure people who are buying 2 seater luxury coupes are worried over the few thousand difference...

You are looking at this as a "car guy", a car guy will know this EV Corolla is actually a BYD. The average person who loves Toyotas just knows this is the new EV Corolla.

Auto Shows are for Car people (probably even more so in techy-SZ), so yeah, no Car people are EVER excited over Toyotas save 2 or 3 models every 2 decades, yet they are the top 3 automaker in the world.

Also, I have no idea on this, but if BYD dealer footprint is not as wide as Toyota, or simply just in different areas, it can make sense as well.

BYD is also probably looking towards the future. A Toyota tie up can be very profitable in the future. What if the Toyota self-EV plans fail outside China? They will be looking for options, and likely looking to BYD for help.
 

pakje

Junior Member
Registered Member
Like I said, why are people buying the Supra over the Z4? It's the same car. I guess it's negligibly cheaper? I'm sure people who are buying 2 seater luxury coupes are worried over the few thousand difference...

You are looking at this as a "car guy", a car guy will know this EV Corolla is actually a BYD. The average person who loves Toyotas just knows this is the new EV Corolla.

Auto Shows are for Car people (probably even more so in techy-SZ), so yeah, no Car people are EVER excited over Toyotas save 2 or 3 models every 2 decades, yet they are the top 3 automaker in the world.

Also, I have no idea on this, but if BYD dealer footprint is not as wide as Toyota, or simply just in different areas, it can make sense as well.

BYD is also probably looking towards the future. A Toyota tie up can be very profitable in the future. What if the Toyota self-EV plans fail outside China? They will be looking for options, and likely looking to BYD for help.
Pretty much, assuming consumers have the ability to make 100% perfect rational decisions is simply a wrong standpoint.

There will be ppl who will buy this for the toyota badge and wouldn't have bought a BYD car regardless, both BYD and toyota understand this.
 

supercat

Major
It's in the realm of possibility now that BYD may become the largest EV maker in the world in the not too distant future:

CATL/BMW's 4690 cylindrical battery may beat Tesla's 4680 to production. However, only a few EV makers (BMW, Tesla) are using cylindrical cells to power their EV. The rest uses prismatic cells, which can take the full advantage of the CTP (cell to pack) technology.


BYD continues to try to secure lithium supply for its ever hungry battery appetite. Keep in mind it had also recently secured $4 billion RMB lithium product with Shenzhen Chengxin. Makes sense for them to do this given CATL has it's own lithium projects also.
BYD is trying to secure lithium supply for the next decade. Its lithium operations cover both African and Chinese mines.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
BYD is also probably looking towards the future. A Toyota tie up can be very profitable in the future. What if the Toyota self-EV plans fail outside China? They will be looking for options, and likely looking to BYD for help.
Sure, I think it's a good thing for BYD. Worst case scenario for them is for this EV to not sell. Best case scenario is for Toyota to become fully dependent on BYD. Might be the best way for them to enter the Japanese market.

anyhow, electric viking discussing what I've been talking about with BYD's international plans
Interesting that he mentioned Mexico so much. BYD did get a pretty large order a month ago for Taxis.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
also had a good size order for trucks last year
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I was in Mexico City a couple of weeks ago in a pretty wealthy part of the town. I've spotted one Tesla during the 5 days I was there. So, the entire EV market there is very non-existent at the moment. A lot of Japanese/German cars out there. I kind of see it as similar to some of these ASEAN markets. At some point, BYD will have an even larger Western hemisphere presence. The cost of labour in Mexico is definitely a lot lower than America. I wouldn't be surprised if they build a large factory in Mexico to bypass the tariffs.

They have a big presence in Colombia and their Hungary factory will probably keep growing to feed the European market. I was surprised to find out they got over 1000 bus delivery in Bogota alone.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Initial May delivery figures are out. This is the one that surprised me. Huawei AITO M5 PHEV did better than I expected. You will see it's not that far off some of the better known ones.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Leapmotor at 10,069
NIO at 7,024
XPeng at 10,125
LiAuto at 11,496
Neta at 11,099
Zeekr at 4,330

So, this is my concern with NIO. They are putting more focus on export market before they even get production and supply chain situation fixed up.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

carnewschina had a nice review of ET5. NIO makes really great cars, but they need to figure out how to ramp up production.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Looks like BYD confirmed on their Weibo account that the African lithium mine news is true. It's a big deal, but given BYD's current expansion plans, they will need to secure more lithium access.
 
Top