New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
New Toyota BZ Corolla spotted in China. As we know, this is basically BYD building a low cost sedan for Toyota. I don't quite understand why the Toyota execs think that Chinese people will buy Sedans that BYD builds for Toyota over sedans they build for themselves? Toyota is screwed in
I'm a bit confused by this sentence, are you asking why people would buy the Toyota-BYD over a BYD-BYD?

Considering the long history of badge engineering, I don't think it's a big deal. Most people don't know the details of a car platform, just the brand. Even something like more enthusiast oriented like the Supra is just a Z4 badge job, and probably the people buying it know it, but don't care.

This is why it's a win-win for BYD in my opinion.
 

supercat

Major
The auto industry has been one of the most significant modern industries ever since its inception about 120 years ago. The time for China's auto industry has finally arrived. China's EV manufacturers are really breaking into the global market now.

The Xpeng G9, which was spotted in Europe, is a good looking mid-sized electric SUV.
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Everything we know about the Xpeng G9 as of May 2022 [Update]​

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Nio ES8 launched in Norway, ET7 to follow this year [Update]​

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U.S, Canada & Europe on the radar of the Zeekr 001 & family [Update]​

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Xpeng G3i (G3 facelift) launched in Norway​

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Leapmotor to launch Leap C11 & Leap C01 in Europe: Report [Update]​

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So, the Japanese automakers are screwed.
Yes, especially if you consider that 20% of the Japanese labor force is employed by the auto industry.
 

tphuang

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I'm a bit confused by this sentence, are you asking why people would buy the Toyota-BYD over a BYD-BYD?

Considering the long history of badge engineering, I don't think it's a big deal. Most people don't know the details of a car platform, just the brand. Even something like more enthusiast oriented like the Supra is just a Z4 badge job, and probably the people buying it know it, but don't care.

This is why it's a win-win for BYD in my opinion.
I'm saying if you have a BYD car and another car that has Toyota plate but is built by BYD, why would a Chinese person pick the one with a Toyota plate and is more expensive? If Toyota only uses BYD Blade Battery and not the CTB or e3.0 technology, then it's not going to be as cheap to build or as good as the Ocean series.

There is so much helium behind BYD in China right now as we've seen in the Shenzhen auto show. Nobody is even going to Toyota corner.

A little more on BYD's battery business
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They expect to delivery 250k battery box this year, a 150% jump over 2021 deliveries. They expect to reach 250 GWh of lithium battery production capacity this year.

NIO ET5 starting to deliver in September. NIO needs to step it up. If they can't get their vehicles delivered sooner, Seal is going to eat up the market.
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As far as Xpeng go recently, they've really not done themselves any favor with this move of rescinding offers on new grads. They are going in the wrong direction.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Now, Cnevpost caught on to the pictures online of people just surrounding BYD Seal. This sedan is just going to sell like hot cakes. Maybe they will be able to get to a steady state of 20k orders a month.

The target is 30k orders per month for the Seal, but I suspect they will surpass this in the future.

thedriven.io/2022/05/23/byd-says-its-atto-4-seal-a-big-success-as-orders-open/
 

yungho

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm saying if you have a BYD car and another car that has Toyota plate but is built by BYD, why would a Chinese person pick the one with a Toyota plate and is more expensive? If Toyota only uses BYD Blade Battery and not the CTB or e3.0 technology, then it's not going to be as cheap to build or as good as the Ocean series.

There is so much helium behind BYD in China right now as we've seen in the Shenzhen auto show. Nobody is even going to Toyota corner.

A little more on BYD's battery business
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
They expect to delivery 250k battery box this year, a 150% jump over 2021 deliveries. They expect to reach 250 GWh of lithium battery production capacity this year.

NIO ET5 starting to deliver in September. NIO needs to step it up. If they can't get their vehicles delivered sooner, Seal is going to eat up the market.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As far as Xpeng go recently, they've really not done themselves any favor with this move of rescinding offers on new grads. They are going in the wrong direction.
Agree on Nio. I have been very dissappointed with Nio's delivery numbers and overall growth. LI and Xpeng have shown good prospects, while Nio has remained stagnant.
 

tphuang

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Someone did a list of news item from BYD just this month (that's not new launch related).
1) May 1st - Guangxi Nanning and BYD signed plans for 55 GWh battery factory. Still negotiating on auto plant.
2) May 1st - Guizhou guiyang now have plans for 40GWh battery. The first phase is 15 GWh.
3) May 5th - Signed deal with Shenzhen bus company for 1010 electric taxis
4) May 6th - Jiangxi wuzhou battery factory first phase 15 GWh starting in October
5) May 10th - Wuwei battery plant's second phase of 15 GWh starting production at end of May (already 10 GWhblade battery in production). 3rd phase factory (battery parts) in construction and planning to start production in Q3. 4th phase (for NEV auto parts) start production in Q2 2023. 5th phase for 15 GWh blade battery, starts construction this year.
6) May 10th - Hefei phase 1 (15 GWh battery + 150000 cars) start production in June. Construction for phase 2 has started.
7) May 15th - Yancheng battery factory is ready to start production.
8) May 16th - Xi'an BYD passenger vehicle phase 3 will start production in end of August (annual production 300k) Battery phase 3 also starts and have 12 GWh production. Dual motor production for external customer also starts production in June.
9) May 19th - 20 billion RMB Shenzhen phase 2 project signed with annual production rate of 600k. Start production in first half of 2023.
10) May 20th - BYD Changsha plan phase 2 will start production in June. This is carrying out the work for D9.
11) The initial batch of 50 Han EV for Brazil are all sold and will be delivered in second half of tis year. DM-i type is still in certification? Most likely land in Brazil in second half. Other cars for Brazilian market include frigate 05, Qin+ DM-i and Song+ DM-i.
12) May 22nd, Shaoxing's second phase is signed (initial phase for 15 GWh). The first phase 15 GWh will be used for DM-i motor's blade battery. The production line is now undergoing testing and will start production in June 15th. Will be used in DM-i deliveries starting in July for DM-i lineup and will also add in Tang DM-p, frigate 07 and D9 in the future.
13) May 26th, Australian Atto3 update, already have delivery covered from July to September. Monthly production for Australia is 1500, so at least 4500 orders.
14) May 27th, 1000th BYD pure electric bus delivered to Scotland.
15) May 27th, Yuan Pro EV production has stopped.

So if you just look at all the new plants or plant expansion they signed this month, it completely blows everyone else's door off. I'm always amused when I hear news that certain large gigafactory is going up with 20 GWh production capabilities. BYD makes that kind of announcement on a weekly basis.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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The Chinese EV industry at the moment reminds me of Chinese smartphone companies from the early to mid 2010s.

A few standout companies with promising scale and capabilities and likely to prove to have good long term prospects and become giants of the industry.

And many, many smaller players that in five or more years will either be absorbed by the bigger players or go out of business.


I certainly think BYD is the most standout of the standout EV companies at present.
But I think they would be well served to shrink their product range a little. Too many options and sub brands can confuse the consumer and also cheapen brand value a little.
Fortunately they are also supremely competent and their products are good.

And the EV industry as a whole is one where Chinese companies generally are big players in all of the major subsystems and subcomponents, with virtually no bottlenecks of technology that are vulnerable to foreign technological blockades.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Can we talk about the strategic aspect of Chinese EV? Will it lead to deindustrialisatioj of Japan and Germany due to their reliance on auto industry?

It will also make others integrate with chinese economy tighter with them making attempt at decouple costlier.

It will make nation like gulf states and russia less relevant due to less fuel consumption in all places.
 

henrik

Senior Member
Registered Member
Agree on Nio. I have been very dissappointed with Nio's delivery numbers and overall growth. LI and Xpeng have shown good prospects, while Nio has remained stagnant.
Nio's models are on average even more expensive than tesla's, as they think they are competing against German luxury cars. More affordable Nio sub-brands will come later. But they need to ramp up their production as the upcoming Neo Technology Park will start production in a few months.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Can we talk about the strategic aspect of Chinese EV? Will it lead to deindustrialisatioj of Japan and Germany due to their reliance on auto industry?

It will also make others integrate with chinese economy tighter with them making attempt at decouple costlier.

It will make nation like gulf states and russia less relevant due to less fuel consumption in all places.

The entire Western world is in the process of being deindustrialized, thanks to a confluence of factors happening simultaneously in fatal synchronous alignment.

Despite the car demand, car sales are down because companies can only produce this much cars with the chips on hand. As long as there is a chip shortage, you can't produce enough cars. Ironically, Russia throwing its car industry back to the eighties, minimal to no electronics needed, might be a hidden blessing.

As car prices go up, this leads to a booming used car market and an eventual destruction of car demand later. Coupled with general economic recessions in Europe and the US, high inflation means people will put their money on their essentials and less towards things like cars.

War in the Ukraine means higher steel prices, and that's going to affect the costs of making a car. See how that affects car production in Europe, Japan and everywhere. The Azovstal plant alone accounts for 50% of the steel production in the Ukraine.

Higher oil prices means headwinds to the costs of plastic, such as those used in making cars.

Not to mention the costs of other metals, Aluminum, Copper, Titanium, and so on.

High oil prices can lead to the destruction of demand of less than economical cars. Could wipe out what's left of the gas guzzling US cars and trucks.

High oil prices means higher costs of diesel, which will raise the cost of logistics, which can result in the shuttering of logistics firms. This can kill the demand for commercial trucks which are already too costly to make anyway.

We are also facing a new vector in the declining and aging population of truck drivers in the US and Europe. Not everyone wants to be a truck driver, and truck drivers, like manufacturing jobs, are those 'dirty' jobs entitled feeling millennials in developed nations are staying away from, as these are jobs that are beneath them. And these jobs also include auto mechanics that you need to keep your cars running.

The next 10 to 20 years is going to be a rocky ride.
 
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