New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

AndrewS

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BYD electric garbage trucks are starting to pop up in cities around the United States. Here's one in action in Florida. People are reportedly confused not being able to hear a garbage truck coming from a mile away


Couple of comments

They should install some sort of vision or sensor system for the bin mechanism.

You can see some of the bins being squeezed too much by the grapple
Plus some of the bins fall over afterwards
And some of the bins need a shake to ensure everything is emptied out

But remember that it is New Way that need to do these improvements.
BYD only provide the electric truck platform.
 

AndrewS

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Man, BYD are absolutely crushing it! Major props to them for being the only automaker to realize there are other places in China besides Shanghai. The others are taking a richly deserved beating for not learning that lesson.

Originally, we had Ford which centralised operations in huge factories and around a single brand.
Then GM came in with multiple brands and smaller factories close to the end demand which reduced transport costs.

The result was that by the 1970s, GM had approximately half of the US market, and Ford around a quarter of the US market.

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An unintended advantage of BYD's multiple smaller factories is that when there is a disruption, you can divert personal, resources and components to the locations which are unaffected.

And that works especially well when you have multiple factories which are expanding.
 

supercat

Major
An unintended advantage of BYD's multiple smaller factories is that when there is a disruption, you can divert personal, resources and components to the locations which are unaffected.

And that works especially well when you have multiple factories which are expanding.
Actually, if you have on-site living facility that can sequester your employees, the impact of unexpected disruptions such COVID can be mitigated rather well, even for centralized manufacturing hubs.

Seal expected to be BYD's key model, with clear advantages over Tesla Model 3, analysts say​

Analysts at Essence Securities expect steady-state monthly sales of the BYD Seal to exceed 30,000 units.
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sndef888

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I just hope the seal is not disappontingly overpriced like the dolphin was

The dolphins price really killed off a lot of interest for it
 

tphuang

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I just hope the seal is not disappontingly overpriced like the dolphin was

The dolphins price really killed off a lot of interest for it
The Dolphin starts of at under 100k RMB. How can you get cheaper than that for a legitimate sized car? That's 15k USD. That's basically the cheapest price you'd have to pay in America for a ICE car.

The Seal is supposedly 220k to 280k RMB. That is still super cheap compared to competition.

I think BYD is really going to do well with these cars. The big question is how many they can produce. That's where all the new factories come into play.
 

AndrewS

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The Dolphin starts of at under 100k RMB. How can you get cheaper than that for a legitimate sized car? That's 15k USD. That's basically the cheapest price you'd have to pay in America for a ICE car.

The Seal is supposedly 220k to 280k RMB. That is still super cheap compared to competition.

I think BYD is really going to do well with these cars. The big question is how many they can produce. That's where all the new factories come into play.

I had a chat with the Ora Cat guys today. Reservations start in August with delivery by December.

The price is "less than £30K" ($38K). That is quite a markup from the 100k RMB ($15K) in China

And they're planning on UK dealer coverage within a 45min drive.
 

AndrewS

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Actually, if you have on-site living facility that can sequester your employees, the impact of unexpected disruptions such COVID can be mitigated rather well, even for centralized manufacturing hubs.
That doesn't address an ongoing expansion programme.

You need people going in and out in order to expand factory capacity.

So yes, Giga Shanghai can operate with personnel onsite.
But since they only have 1 location, they can't expand production as they planned to.

And it's arguably more difficult to isolate, quarantine and provide onsite housing for a factory with more workers
 

FairAndUnbiased

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posted me to this link
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A lot of the details in there we already know, but I hadn't followed byd enough to know this part.

basically, BYD has plants everywhere in China. Not just in Shanghai and Shenzhen or their surrounding areas or even 2nd tier cities. A lot of these places are 3rd or 4th tier cities in China.

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If you just look at this, they are diversifying their production all over China. This is quite an interesting strategy. It's one that has served them well during the most recent lockdowns as a lot of its competitors could not operate since they are based around Shanghai.

There is huge cost of living and salary gap between Shanghai and Shenzhen with 2nd tier cities. There is even bigger gap with 3rd and 4th tier cities where some of BYD's factories are located. Bringing their high tech plants to these cities less associated with auto/EV industry probably brought BYD a lot of favors with local government in terms of taxes/land and order book. This is not a strategy that a company like Tesla would be able to adopt. Or even other major foreign automakers and their JVs can do, since they are probably uncomfortable operating outside of the areas best known to foreigners. It's also unlikely smaller startups like NIO or XPeng can open up many different factories. So, this is like something only large private automaker with firm understanding of regional politics and supply chain management inside China can employ. This is also not an easy strategy to execute since many of these 3rd/4th tiers cities don't have the same work culture as the ultra productive manufacturing hubs. But if you are able to get similar level of productive while paying much lower wages, then you win big time.

There has always been this question of how BYD has such a cost advantage over its competitors. Having a great management and vertical integration are definitely keys, but I think being able to carry out manufacturing outside of the traditional auto hubs also provides them a key advantage.
This is nothing new, this was started even back in the 60s with heavy industry and defense industry being replicated from Manchuria to central and southwestern China. This was again emphasized in the 2000s when the Hu government saw the coast development was too fast and overheated while interior development was too slow.

All this was set in motion decades ago. That's why you have company sites like YMTC Wuhan, BYD Xi'an, AVIC Chengdu, etc. Which are all premier manufacturing and R&D sites. And even foreign companies like Samsung Xi'an.

Work ethic isn't that different, yeah people take it easier in Xi'an or Wuhan but YMTC Wuhan and BYD Xi'an worked through the lockdowns.
 

tphuang

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I had a chat with the Ora Cat guys today. Reservations start in August with delivery by December.

The price is "less than £30K" ($38K). That is quite a markup from the 100k RMB ($15K) in China

And they're planning on UK dealer coverage within a 45min drive.
Sorry, I have no idea what Ora Cat is. I do see Atto 3 selling for what amounts to 33k USD in Australia. That is priced at 21k (Yuan Plus) in China. Found it surprising they would markup BYD dolphin that much. They must be making great profits on them.

Back to BYD itself, I think the problem with BYD is still branding. While BYD is branding is doing well in the latest surveys, I think it's still suffering from Chinese public regarding foreign brands as superior. It's sad, since BYD cars are right up there in quality with all the foreign brand. It's almost like a Chinese brand need to succeed in the oversea market to be respected at home.
 

AndrewS

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Sorry, I have no idea what Ora Cat is. I do see Atto 3 selling for what amounts to 33k USD in Australia. That is priced at 21k (Yuan Plus) in China. Found it surprising they would markup BYD dolphin that much. They must be making great profits on them.

Back to BYD itself, I think the problem with BYD is still branding. While BYD is branding is doing well in the latest surveys, I think it's still suffering from Chinese public regarding foreign brands as superior. It's sad, since BYD cars are right up there in quality with all the foreign brand. It's almost like a Chinese brand need to succeed in the oversea market to be respected at home.

My understanding is that the foreign automakers (apart from Tesla) are really far behind in terms of the infotainment system and dashboard.

And that is really visible to any car buyer.

From what I can see, there appears to be an evolving tie up between BYD, Nio and XPeng who are now sharing components/batteries.
I wouldn't be surprised if this evolved into a more formal cross-shareholding in the future, with Nio and XPeng occupying the luxury niche with BYD being more affordable.
 
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