New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tankphobia

tankphobia

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tphuang said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1866670889183433133

my explanation here of semi Solid state battery being used and developed for commercial vehicles and how it works.

people are just clueless in the West about how huge of a solid state battery supply chain is getting built up in China.
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Proliferation of battery electric storage across China has huge ramifications for future infrastructure. High capacity transmission lines will be less necessary if battery can provide the buffer with local generation during the day and recharge at night. A distributed, independent grid will also be substantially more resilient to disruption.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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Lethe said:
With the Australian launch of BYD Shark 6 imminent, CarExpert has a lot of praise for the vehicle in its recent
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of a pre-production sample, including in some unexpected areas such as dynamic performance, but they also encountered significant issues while testing off-road performance, specifically an inability to manage a fairly modest hill climb.


It has been suggested that at least some of this poor performance can be attributed to CarExpert testing an early production sample with unrefined software/firmware, with other vehicles in the local pre-production test pool, equipped with newer software/firmware, reportedly performing better in similar tests conducted by other local outlets. Yet even in this best-case scenario where the issue is one of software/firmware maturity rather than fundamental hardware limitations, one has to ask just whose idea was it to give CarExpert a vehicle with the older software/firmware? CarExpert is the single most important publication in the Australian automotive landscape and their coverage will significantly shape the local narrative around this vehicle. If there are other vehicles in the test pool that perform better in off-road scenarios and are more representative of production vehicles, then give them those vehicles to test! Forget paying influencers to manufacture a local launch event, try just not shooting yourself in the foot....
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Part of the issue is the manufacturer giving access to early production cars to begin with -- but part of the issue is also youtube channels so obsessed with being early to produce "reviews" that they title reviews with cars in that way rather than calling it something else like a "hands on" or "preview".

IMO for cars, if you haven't been driving a production model daily for a month or so then you shouldn't really be calling it a "review".
Someone doing a "review" for a smartphone would be criticized if they had access to a preproduction model as well.


I'm not sure in this case how much time CarExpert had with it, but if it's a pre-production model then imo it's more accurate to call it a "preview" than a "review". It's a problem I've noticed with lots of car reviewers these days.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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tankphobia said:
Proliferation of battery electric storage across China has huge ramifications for future infrastructure. High capacity transmission lines will be less necessary if battery can provide the buffer with local generation during the day and recharge at night. A distributed, independent grid will also be substantially more resilient to disruption.
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keep in mind that you are not going to use semi SSB for BESS, because cost is too high. longer term, SIB is the best solution for it.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
Blitzo said:
Part of the issue is the manufacturer giving access to early production cars to begin with -- but part of the issue is also youtube channels so obsessed with being early to produce "reviews" that they title reviews with cars in that way rather than calling it something else like a "hands on" or "preview".

IMO for cars, if you haven't been driving a production model daily for a month or so then you shouldn't really be calling it a "review".
Someone doing a "review" for a smartphone would be criticized if they had access to a preproduction model as well.

I'm not sure in this case how much time CarExpert had with it, but if it's a pre-production model then imo it's more accurate to call it a "preview" than a "review". It's a problem I've noticed with lots of car reviewers these days.
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In the abstract that seems a sensible proposition, but I'm not sure how well it aligns with how most outlets handle reviews of most vehicles. It seems to be common practice for outlets to be given access to a vehicle a few weeks prior to its general availability, and to produce a "review" on that basis. However, those are typically production-standard vehicles, which doesn't appear to be the case here. Shark deliveries are expected to begin within weeks, which means the timing of the "review" is not particularly unusual. What seems unusual is that BYD Australia a.ka. EV Direct doesn't have production-standard vehicles on hand to farm out to outlets like CarExpert only weeks before release. The conclusion I draw is that this vehicle is coming in very hot indeed, and I think there are a few reasons why BYD Australia is pushing to get it on the road as soon as possible:

1. BYD Australia a.k.a. EV Direct has long said that Shark would launch locally by end 2024, which is... now.
2. Shark will be the only PHEV ute on the Australian market when it launches, but it's unclear how long that will remain the case, with Ford Ranger PHEV and GWM Cannon Alpha PHEV also scheduled to launch here in 2025.
3. There is currently a tax rebate available for PHEVs that is going to expire on June 30 next year.
 
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S

supersnoop

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Lethe said:
There do seem to be some underlying engineering limitations that translate to Shark not offering the same level of off-road capability as some full-featured ICE utes.
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video goes into some detail regarding Shark's torque deficit relative to ICE vehicles with low-range gearing and differential locks and how that relates to the limitations encountered whilst hill-climbing. The FCB Leopard 5 that Shark is based on does have differential locks, so there is clearly some cost-cutting and tailoring to specific intended use scenarios going on.

So far as I can tell, BYD Shark is indeed a highly compelling package, including more off-road capability than the great majority of prospective owners will ever require. But it is nonetheless a somewhat different package compared to the mid- and upper-spec ICE utes that it is most directly competing against, which means that BYD has the additional challenge of crafting a unique narrative about this vehicle that effectively communicates what it is and who it is for.
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You really cannot compare the off-road capability of the Raptor package vs. the base Shark. The Raptor package was designed to be Ford's top off-road (and performance) package for the Ranger (and F-150). Similarly, the Bao5 is also meant to be tailored to off-road enthusiasts first.

Should the demand for better off-road capability be strong, then they will simply add the Bao5 features as an upgrade package (Pick Ups/Utes love selling 27,000 different option packages)

I agree it is a different package, I would say not just "somewhat", but actually quite significantly
Fast pickup - Under 6s 0-100
V2L capability - Able to power tools for tradespeople or camping
Well appointed interior/100Km EV range/Apple Carkey - Good everyday touches

Some of these are simply not easily matched. Even the upcoming Ranger PHEV will not match it.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
supersnoop said:
You really cannot compare the off-road capability of the Raptor package vs. the base Shark. The Raptor package was designed to be Ford's top off-road (and performance) package for the Ranger (and F-150). Similarly, the Bao5 is also meant to be tailored to off-road enthusiasts first.


Should the demand for better off-road capability be strong, then they will simply add the Bao5 features as an upgrade package (Pick Ups/Utes love selling 27,000 different option packages)
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The Raptor comparison in the video is just for the sprint time (which Shark wins). I don't think anyone is asking or expecting Shark to match the more expensive and specialised Raptor in terms of the overall off-road capability, however Shark's limitations in this area also show up relative to more mainstream ICE ute offerings such as the new Mitsubishi Triton, which offers low range transfer case and both rear and centre differential locks at slightly lower price than Shark. Agree that current incarnation of Shark is by no means the end of the story.

supersnoop said:
I agree it is a different package, I would say not just "somewhat", but actually quite significantly
Fast pickup - Under 6s 0-100
V2L capability - Able to power tools for tradespeople or camping
Well appointed interior/100Km EV range/Apple Carkey - Good everyday touches
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I would add to this list that Shark apparently has better on-road dynamics than most utes. At the same time there are deficits in payload, towing capacity and off-road capability. Nonetheless I think the defining characteristic here is actually the price, which is in line with mid-spec versions of benchmark ICE utes ICE Ranger and Hilux. The value proposition is quite extraordinary, and it is going to undercut Ranger PHEV by tens of thousands of dollars.

One additional characteristic worth noting: the great majority of vehicles sold in Australia come with at least a "compact" spare tyre, yet almost all NEVs (and most non-Toyota hybrids) lack them. Shark may well be the only PHEV in the country with a spare tyre, and the only NEV with a full-size spare tyre (Hyundai Kona EV has a "compact" spare).
 
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