New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China
- Thread starter supercat
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That's... not how it works. if SAIC-GM workers feel that they are underpaid, quit and find a better job. If no STEM grad wants to work for "low wages", that's fine, and that means SAIC-GM will have to raise their wages in order to attract that kind of workforce.
It's not that I'm saying you should "care" about EU's perspective. It's that you're arguing that China can respond with tariffs on EU automakers, and my point is that this might not even bother EU all that much.
Firstly, their sales are already declining in China, so there's a timer anyway. Second, these are ultimately factories in China and not the EU, which is what the entire drama is about anyway. I don't think the EU particularly cares that Tesla is an American company, what bothers them is that Teslas are imported from China. Third, EU is not a nation, it's a trade bloc, and not everyone in EU is actually all that fond of German automakers.
Maybe long term what you are saying is correct. But on that chance they are basically throwing away what market share they had in China.
The majors like VW, BMW, Mercedes were selling more cars in China than they were in Europe.
The EU tariffs were put into place by companies which basically do not sell in China anymore for a long time. Like Stellantis or Renault. Their cars have not been competitive for a long time.
It is kind of pointless of them to kick out Chinese EVs anyway, it will just mean that Tesla will be getting that market instead. Solving nothing.
The way they went about putting the tariffs into place, claiming Chinese "overcapacity", or state support was also pretty rich.
Asking Chinese car companies to open up their books, and examine their cost structure, was also market destabilizing and infringe on possible Chinese auto sector trade secrets. The differential tariff rate is also a slap on the face of the Chinese government.
The EU asked for a trade war and they will get one.
If my memory serves me correctly, Renault basically gave up and decided to do a JV with Geely instead.
You are talking about older generation of workers. I am talking about a new generation of workers coming in. They want to work on higher end jobs. So China needs to move up value chain. That’s why domestic brands winning is good.
Where did I say that? Can you point out the sentence where I said they can respond with tariffs on eu automakers?
tariffs in this case on euros will move some production to China but most of their production is already in China. The bigger issue is market access for Chinese and European brands. Chinese brands can live without Europe. German brands are going to have a hard time losing 1/3 of their sales.
I have said nothing about Tesla. Why are you even bringing them up?
the fact is that China would be better served if its domestic brands win vs JVs. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand.
Never said it wasn't good... I was just responding to your comment that JVs hired low-wage workers. If they demand higher wages, they can just quit and find a better job. It's not like there's a surplus of labor in China, quite the opposite.
Is this not what you implied here? To be specific, this section;
"Here is that thing, VW still getting 1/3 of its sales from China so far this year. So, the Europeans have spent months going berserk and using up air time with their China EV Tariff nonsense. Yet, BYD sells more cars in Singapore than Germany. The Euros refuse to acknowledge that they have far more to lose if they get pushed out of the China market than China has to lose if it loses access to Europe market. Many of the EVs exported to Europe are from European brands. So without access to this, VW is getting hammered. hence the job cuts and factory closures in Germany."
Without tariffs or China simply closing the market to European firms, how would VW (or other EU brands) lose access to China? I was simply responding to this possibility with the fact that EU may not see this as a terrible thing in the long-term, or in the short-term.
Or they simply start leaving the Chinese market that they're already losing anyway. Yeah, German brands are going to suffer, but if things get dire Germany or EU can always bail out automakers, that's not unprecedented. More importantly, EU seems to be much more interested in making sure that cars sold in EU are actually made in EU.
That's why I brought up Tesla, who is also tarriffed despite not being a Chinese company.
I don't think anybody disagrees with that. Domestic brands are on their way out, and this trade dispute might speed that up.
A bigger question to me, is that if this trade dispute widens, will EU even allow Chinese brands to build factories in Europe? I think it's a possibility that EU may take steps to prevent brands like BYD from gaining any serious foothold in the EU marketplace.
Tesla has the lowest tariff. And yet they are the largest exporter of EVs from China into Europe.
China has a problem where it has a lot of people graduating with college degree that want to do white collar jobs, not blue collar jobs. BYD has no issue recruiting the best of the best when it comes to campus recruitment for R&D. But it's always having trouble getting enough people working in its factories.
Again, the issue is not just wages. Young people coming out of college want to do white collar jobs. A lot of them would rather make less doing white collar jobs than making more doing blue collar jobs.
As such, Chinese government needs to create more R&D and engineering jobs.
so you admit that I never wrote using tariffs to close market to European firms.
Given that you probably have not spend much time listening to Chinese industry experts talking about this point, you probably don't understand what I'm writing here.
And it would be good if you don't assume you know.
If you agree with my point that China is better served by having domestic brands win then why are you continuing to argue with me on this?
If EU doesn't allow Chinese brands to build factories in Europe, that's fine. Then, there is no reason to allow EU companies keep operating in China. Chinese market is twice the size of European market. VW gets 1/3 of its sales in China and BYD sells less than 2000 in EU every month. I don't know why these things are so hard to understand.
Lmfao, it's funny how Shanghai people are so consistently traitors/pro west liberals.View attachment 138043
EU released the names of the traitors
Not surprised by SAIC btw, they already tried some funny business in India and are getting investigated.
