New Chinese Military Developments

DarkEminence

New Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

adeptitus said:
Hmm...

T-34: 76.2mm F-34 gun
T-44: 85mm ZiS-S-53 gun
T-55: 100mm D10T rifled gun
T-62: 115mm smoothbore gun
T-10: 122mm D25-TA gun
T-72: 125mm 2A46M smoothbore gun
T-95: rumored to be equipped with 152mm gun, status unknown

I'd say the evolution toward larger caliber guns will continue, until the technology (tank gun) is replaced by something new (EM projector?):
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Well, I've read somewhere that Electro Thermal Chemical guns were more likely to be used instead of railguns. And, they were supposed to use RDX as a propellent!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(however, this site may not be trustworthy).
 

Teutates

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Hi, Demian

My name is Xavier. I'm Belgian, then we are traditional and hereditary enemies...hehe...just joking.
In 1994, I joined the Belgian para-commando, exactly the 2nd Commando Battalion, 14th Company. I was in active service until September 1999 when i decided to become reservist and start my studies at the university. I always regret to no more be a regular, but it was the only way for me to combine different aspects of my life, and to be reservist is better than nothing. Anyway, now I'm a PhD first year student, and It's already three years that I'm doing researches and studies in Japan (for the moment I'm part of the Osaka University). My academic speciality is related to the military affairs.
At the beginning, I was very excited by the big military transformation that the Asian powers seem to do, but after more than 7 years of studies including already three full years in Japan (and Asia), I arrive to the same conclusion than most of the European specialists that I know in Japan: Asian powers must not be underestimated BUT in really the quality of the Asian armies is generally not very high: it's a lot of "show" with firework, a kind of military ballet. Some improvements are made, but still these armies are not very good: all is based on the appearances,...just like in the society. Moreover, speaking about appearances, I personnally think that the Asian armies are very kitsch. Then, globally, I probably agree with your impression, Demian.

It's always difficult and maybe impossible to do an exact ranking of armies. However, for the Asian ranking, I even don't think that China has the best army. Maybe the RoK Army (South Korea) is far better. The SAF (Singapore) are also impresive and improve a lot. However, the RoK Army, just like the other Asian armies, is based on "show" and like to present a tuff image of itself, but it has not sufficient operational credibility. South Korea also had not participated to combats since the Vietnam War in the 1960's, has a limited number of recent overseas deployment (East Timor, Iraq), and its only recent combat experiences are some occasional and very limited border clashes with North Korea. China is in a worst situation because there is NO Chinese forces overseas (maybe excepted some military advisers or observers) since more than two decades and the reality of battlefield become in the Chinese mind a kind of heroic and clean image for glory, and they are very excited like kids with toys and without maturity. In the PLA (China), only a small percent of the troops are equiped with a better material than the rest. The training is relatively of poor quality (but maybe sufficient for the standards of the region). And the lists of comments can be long. South Korea is in better situation: the forces are more modernized and standardized (and the quality of the equipment is quickly improving, as well the autonomy of the defense industry is quickly increasing), the quality and the level of education of the recruits is far higher, and the quality of the training is better than in China. Also, with more than 680,000 regulars and around 4,500,000 reservists South Korea has in peacetime more men in uniforms than China (but, if South Korea does not have a rapid decisive victory, China would be able to mobilize more manpower because of its far larger population...however, I don't believe that China has the economical power to give heavy equipments to millions or tens of millions of quickly mobilized people that would probably be badly trained very light troops). The major advantages of China compared to Korea are the mass, and also some strategic vectors like nukes. For these reasons, even if the PLA is not a very good army, it must not be underestimated and, in Asia, it's a major military power for sure.
Singapore has armed forces with highly educated military personel (even higher than in South Korea) and high quality equipment (also rapidly increasing). Moreover, the armed forces of Singapore are part of an impressive policy of Total Defense involving all the society (after having studied Total Defense in Switzerland and Sweden). But, Singapore has absolutely no military experiences (all is theories), and it's a so small country. However, still it's from far one of the two or three best armies in Asia.

It was just a few general comments. But, I'm sure that there will have many reactions...
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

I just cleaned up a bit...So lets give Teutates a proper welcome.
We all have titeled to our obinion, expecially when expressed in such good manners as above. If you dont agree whit them, Then you answer to them, whit proper counter arguments and make up an discussion. Not whit some tacky oneliners like "You better keep your mouth shut, you know shit oubout the migthy of china"....If you are more on to that sort of trash, perhaps you should start looking on some other forums, becouse here in SDF we try to be something better.
I wont issue any warnings to those who replyed to this thread, and I also cleaned those of (as well as Teutates answer) in order to get you all another change to start the conversation

Gollevainen
Super moderator
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Hi, Demian

My name is Xavier. I'm Belgian, then we are traditional and hereditary enemies...hehe...just joking.
In 1994, I joined the Belgian para-commando, exactly the 2nd Commando Battalion, 14th Company. I was in active service until September 1999 when i decided to become reservist and start my studies at the university. I always regret to no more be a regular, but it was the only way for me to combine different aspects of my life, and to be reservist is better than nothing. Anyway, now I'm a PhD first year student, and It's already three years that I'm doing researches and studies in Japan (for the moment I'm part of the Osaka University). My academic speciality is related to the military affairs.
At the beginning, I was very excited by the big military transformation that the Asian powers seem to do, but after more than 7 years of studies including already three full years in Japan (and Asia), I arrive to the same conclusion than most of the European specialists that I know in Japan: Asian powers must not be underestimated BUT in really the quality of the Asian armies is generally not very high: it's a lot of "show" with firework, a kind of military ballet. Some improvements are made, but still these armies are not very good: all is based on the appearances,...just like in the society. Moreover, speaking about appearances, I personnally think that the Asian armies are very kitsch. Then, globally, I probably agree with your impression, Demian.

It's always difficult and maybe impossible to do an exact ranking of armies. However, for the Asian ranking, I even don't think that China has the best army. Maybe the RoK Army (South Korea) is far better. The SAF (Singapore) are also impresive and improve a lot. However, the RoK Army, just like the other Asian armies, is based on "show" and like to present a tuff image of itself, but it has not sufficient operational credibility. South Korea also had not participated to combats since the Vietnam War in the 1960's, has a limited number of recent overseas deployment (East Timor, Iraq), and its only recent combat experiences are some occasional and very limited border clashes with North Korea. China is in a worst situation because there is NO Chinese forces overseas (maybe excepted some military advisers or observers) since more than two decades and the reality of battlefield become in the Chinese mind a kind of heroic and clean image for glory, and they are very excited like kids with toys and without maturity. In the PLA (China), only a small percent of the troops are equiped with a better material than the rest. The training is relatively of poor quality (but maybe sufficient for the standards of the region). And the lists of comments can be long. South Korea is in better situation: the forces are more modernized and standardized (and the quality of the equipment is quickly improving, as well the autonomy of the defense industry is quickly increasing), the quality and the level of education of the recruits is far higher, and the quality of the training is better than in China. Also, with more than 680,000 regulars and around 4,500,000 reservists South Korea has in peacetime more men in uniforms than China (but, if South Korea does not have a rapid decisive victory, China would be able to mobilize more manpower because of its far larger population...however, I don't believe that China has the economical power to give heavy equipments to millions or tens of millions of quickly mobilized people that would probably be badly trained very light troops). The major advantages of China compared to Korea are the mass, and also some strategic vectors like nukes. For these reasons, even if the PLA is not a very good army, it must not be underestimated and, in Asia, it's a major military power for sure.
Singapore has armed forces with highly educated military personel (even higher than in South Korea) and high quality equipment (also rapidly increasing). Moreover, the armed forces of Singapore are part of an impressive policy of Total Defense involving all the society (after having studied Total Defense in Switzerland and Sweden). But, Singapore has absolutely no military experiences (all is theories), and it's a so small country. However, still it's from far one of the two or three best armies in Asia.

It was just a few general comments. But, I'm sure that there will have many reactions...


Hi, first of all, welcome. I myself is very new here and from your creditial, I sure hope to learn alot from you. I am a conscript once in Singapore military, that is six years back.

From your wordings, I think you really know quite a lot on the Asian military powers. However I must clarify that military might shouldn't just be judged based on actual military experience. Of course I couldn't dispute that experience is so much more important then class lessons.

However if I remember correctly, the Japanese didn't have much of an experience during the start of World War II when they attack China. And China who had been involved in civil war all these years are supposed to have alot of experience.

In Vietnam war, the US marines and army are supposed to be more battle harden and are veterans... but Vietcon managed to kick them hard... not necessary win them, but pained them.

What I mean here is that sole experiences, technological superiority, etc, do not count too much in battlefield. Rather determination and will power of individual and an army on the whole, really counts.

Of course I do not believe myself to know wee of a bit as compare to you, and so I hope you could enlighten me on your experiences.

Also, could we talk of this in another thread? I think this thread is for super tanks:D
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Welcome to SDF, frankzsm and Xavier. :china: :)

As a custom here, please introduce yourselves at the Club Room's introductory thread.

I am interested at what you have to say, but as Golly and Rhino have mentioned: this thread is about supertanks, so it would be best that you will open another thread to talk of your interests. And of course, follow the rules and don't be offtopic, because this is a very strict forum. :nono:
 

Red_CCF

New Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

First im Demian a Dutch soldier.
Im a member of the 45th PAINF (mech/armourd infantry)
My function is mimini-paraversion whit night-vision equip gunner.
Next year i go to Afganistan..:nono:
Last month we beated the USmarinecorps USMC in a training.

Mmm a Chineese supertank no not possible.
Its based on Russian equipment like the 2a46m 125mm tank gun.
The German/Dutch Leopard2a6 wil be better by far than the new Chineese generation of tanks whit his 120mm l55 gun.
whitch is selected for the newest US tank the M1A2.
Arogant US takes a German gun must be very good.:coffee:
The Leopard2a6 can beat targets up to 6000m.
And his Chobham armour is state of the art.
Im sure that he can take a chineese sabot ore heat tankhit.
The HV nightvison is able to see someones bloodpuls on 1km:D :nono: .
Its advanced integrated computersystem whit laserrangefinder an high rate of fire make it possible tot take lots of kills in one minute.
69tons make him havy but the 2000HP engine makes him fast.
Becuse its German its very good every thing thats there is very good.
The new chineese type 99 could be a relative good tank but not very good thats why i dont thing there wil be a very good Chineesetank in the coming years.

yes the leopard 2 tank is much more superior to the chinese type 99, but what are the chances of the leopard 2 actually facing off against the type 99 in actual combat. and besides, the leopard 2 is superior than the type 99 in a one on one combat with no infantry assistance. in a actual war, the number of chinese type 99s would most likely outnumber the leopard 2. tanks are also weak against infantry and are easily disabled by infantry so even if all the type 99s are destroyed by leopards, there are more than enough infantry in the chinese arsenal to fight back at the leopards.

However, the leopard 2 is a very good tank
 

Red_CCF

New Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Hi, Demian

My name is Xavier. I'm Belgian, then we are traditional and hereditary enemies...hehe...just joking.
In 1994, I joined the Belgian para-commando, exactly the 2nd Commando Battalion, 14th Company. I was in active service until September 1999 when i decided to become reservist and start my studies at the university. I always regret to no more be a regular, but it was the only way for me to combine different aspects of my life, and to be reservist is better than nothing. Anyway, now I'm a PhD first year student, and It's already three years that I'm doing researches and studies in Japan (for the moment I'm part of the Osaka University). My academic speciality is related to the military affairs.
At the beginning, I was very excited by the big military transformation that the Asian powers seem to do, but after more than 7 years of studies including already three full years in Japan (and Asia), I arrive to the same conclusion than most of the European specialists that I know in Japan: Asian powers must not be underestimated BUT in really the quality of the Asian armies is generally not very high: it's a lot of "show" with firework, a kind of military ballet. Some improvements are made, but still these armies are not very good: all is based on the appearances,...just like in the society. Moreover, speaking about appearances, I personnally think that the Asian armies are very kitsch. Then, globally, I probably agree with your impression, Demian.

It's always difficult and maybe impossible to do an exact ranking of armies. However, for the Asian ranking, I even don't think that China has the best army. Maybe the RoK Army (South Korea) is far better. The SAF (Singapore) are also impresive and improve a lot. However, the RoK Army, just like the other Asian armies, is based on "show" and like to present a tuff image of itself, but it has not sufficient operational credibility. South Korea also had not participated to combats since the Vietnam War in the 1960's, has a limited number of recent overseas deployment (East Timor, Iraq), and its only recent combat experiences are some occasional and very limited border clashes with North Korea. China is in a worst situation because there is NO Chinese forces overseas (maybe excepted some military advisers or observers) since more than two decades and the reality of battlefield become in the Chinese mind a kind of heroic and clean image for glory, and they are very excited like kids with toys and without maturity. In the PLA (China), only a small percent of the troops are equiped with a better material than the rest. The training is relatively of poor quality (but maybe sufficient for the standards of the region). And the lists of comments can be long. South Korea is in better situation: the forces are more modernized and standardized (and the quality of the equipment is quickly improving, as well the autonomy of the defense industry is quickly increasing), the quality and the level of education of the recruits is far higher, and the quality of the training is better than in China. Also, with more than 680,000 regulars and around 4,500,000 reservists South Korea has in peacetime more men in uniforms than China (but, if South Korea does not have a rapid decisive victory, China would be able to mobilize more manpower because of its far larger population...however, I don't believe that China has the economical power to give heavy equipments to millions or tens of millions of quickly mobilized people that would probably be badly trained very light troops). The major advantages of China compared to Korea are the mass, and also some strategic vectors like nukes. For these reasons, even if the PLA is not a very good army, it must not be underestimated and, in Asia, it's a major military power for sure.
Singapore has armed forces with highly educated military personel (even higher than in South Korea) and high quality equipment (also rapidly increasing). Moreover, the armed forces of Singapore are part of an impressive policy of Total Defense involving all the society (after having studied Total Defense in Switzerland and Sweden). But, Singapore has absolutely no military experiences (all is theories), and it's a so small country. However, still it's from far one of the two or three best armies in Asia.

It was just a few general comments. But, I'm sure that there will have many reactions...

education doesn't matter a lot. look at the chinese civil war. the kuomindang has far better training, equipment, numbers, and education, but were still defeated by the communist forces. In a war, it is the will to fight that matters. A well trained soldier that surrenders in the face of the enemy would be less superior compared to a soldier that is untrained but fights bravely. Of course education does matter still and experience is important but with China's large population mass, china can hold on in a war long enough to gain knowledge of what they need to improve on and experience and eventually win in a conflict.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Well, I've read somewhere that Electro Thermal Chemical guns were more likely to be used instead of railguns. And, they were supposed to use RDX as a propellent!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(however, this site may not be trustworthy).

there are likely hood the ETC propellant will be use by the navy.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

yes the leopard 2 tank is much more superior to the chinese type 99, but what are the chances of the leopard 2 actually facing off against the type 99 in actual combat. and besides, the leopard 2 is superior than the type 99 in a one on one combat with no infantry assistance. in a actual war, the number of chinese type 99s would most likely outnumber the leopard 2. tanks are also weak against infantry and are easily disabled by infantry so even if all the type 99s are destroyed by leopards, there are more than enough infantry in the chinese arsenal to fight back at the leopards.

However, the leopard 2 is a very good tank

during the early 80's the German arm forces actually allowed group PLA officer to drive the leopard-2 tank.accoprding to the report the chinese official were highly impress by leo-2.
 

icy_CMU

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

I think the weaknees of PLA is "They don't have any war for 50 years" It means they don't have any experience of war Example: the tactics in many kind of wars. But for USA they pratice so hard & They've joined many war .They learnt many tactics and developed their tactics for each kind of war. You can compare it by Development of Weapons .


Sorry for poor English .
 
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