Naval launchers, guns and others

Insignius said:

Yeah, the size of the plume (and blackness of the smoke) does indeed have something of a space-rocket.

But I dont know whether an ABM needs such a big rocket booster. That is, if the HQ-26 really is the ABM missile...

From the comments in the weibo, most seem to say that it might be a Chinese SM-6 equivalent. Maybe with secondary ABM capability.

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The black smoke I think is simply from the cold launch system ejecting the missile out of the tube... trying to gauge its role simply based on appearance of the smoke plume or even simply based on the missile's appearance with or without booster is not really useful either, because both naval SAM and ABM weapons can look identical (re: SM-3 variants and SM-1/SM-2/SM-6).


In this case I think we should be deferring to credible rumours if there are any, and if there are not then we should consider what the consensus on the BBS may be while also using common sense on our own.

Bltizo said:

I'm not suggesting BMD is meant to be a role for 052D.

But if this new missile is indeed a long range SAM as I believe it most likely is, then it would make sense to allow older ships to be backwards compatible as well.

Actually no, scratch that -- it would make sense for 052D to have the longer 9m long VLS to allow it to be forward compatible with new munitions that would inevitably be developed in coming years and decades for the 9m long VLS.



So the question we should be asking is simply what length VLS the 052D has.

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I agree that adopting 9-meter VLs cells would make sense with the prospect of newer missiles; it's just that we have no confirmation of the 052D's VLS cell length.

Has anyone measured the height of the 052D's bow and whether it could theoretically adopt a 9-meter system?

SinoSoldier said:

I agree that adopting 9-meter VLs cells would make sense with the prospect of newer missiles; it's just that we have no confirmation of the 052D's VLS cell length.

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Yes, that is why my previous replies were asking why we thought this new SAM is only for 055, because that would imply we have some sort of indication to suggest that 052D does not have the 9m VLS.

Has anyone measured the height of the 052D's bow and whether it could theoretically adopt a 9-meter system?

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Much more difficult to measure height of a ship without a proper reference length, compared to measuring length and beam whcih we can do via satellite.
I expect this question to mostly remain unresolved unless we have big shrimps or official disclosures about 052Ds VLS

Bltizo said:

Yes, that is why my previous replies were asking why we thought this new SAM is only for 055, because that would imply we have some sort of indication to suggest that 052D does not have the 9m VLS.




Much more difficult to measure height of a ship without a proper reference length, compared to measuring length and beam whcih we can do via satellite.
I expect this question to mostly remain unresolved unless we have big shrimps or official disclosures about 052Ds VLS

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On the contrary, measuring the height of the bow should be fairly straightforward:
1. We know that the length of the ship is roughly 156 meters.
2. From pixel measurements in MS Paint, we know that the height-to-length ratio is ~0.044.
3. Via using these ratios, we can calculate the height of the bow (near VLS area) to be ~6.8 meters.
4. Adding the draft of the vessel to our previous measurement gives us a total depth of 13.3 meters in which a VLS cell could be situated.



So, a 9-meter VLS is dimensionally appropriate. However, if the rumors surrounding the missile are true, then the Type 052D probably doesn't have a 9-meter system.

SinoSoldier said:

On the contrary, measuring the height of the bow should be fairly straightforward:
1. We know that the length of the ship is roughly 156 meters.
2. From pixel measurements in MS Paint, we know that the height-to-length ratio is ~0.044.
3. Via using these ratios, we can calculate the height of the bow (near VLS area) to be ~6.8 meters.
4. Adding the draft of the vessel to our previous measurement gives us a total depth of 13.3 meters in which a VLS cell could be situated.

View attachment 33607

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Nice, although I was more worried about whether the draft of the ship is accurate; i.e.: whether the online listed ones on wikipedia and the like are actually right.
I suppose they could be further verified by other means.

So, a 9-meter VLS is dimensionally appropriate. However, if the rumors surrounding the missile are true, then the Type 052D probably doesn't have a 9-meter system.

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Which rumours are those, and what do they actually state?

We actually have a shot depicting a 052D VLS complex (taken in Dalian)

This can give us some measurement tools

Bltizo said:

Which rumours are those, and what do they actually state?

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The rumor that the missile can only be fitted on the 055.

SinoSoldier said:

The rumor that the missile can only be fitted on the 055.

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Sigh, obviously.

I meant which link, and what the original words were?

For example are you talking about this one?



Because my read on it says that while the new missile does need the 9m large VLS module, I don't think it explicitly confirms that the 052D uses the medium VLS type or that it doesn't use the 9m VLS module, and I think if we use some common sense then it's logical that the new missile likely uses the 9m VLS length given the missile's size, but I'm not sure if it's common sense to think that 052D lacks the 9m VLS.

If we get indications from other big shrimps or from the Navy officially then that would be a different matter, but as of now I consider the 052D's VLS length to still be either/or.

You guys are also forgetting that the 052D's rear VLS modules are situated one full deck higher than the bow VLS section. The 052D does not need to have the same length VLS in both the front and back.

Launcher used on 056A and new anti-submarine missile deployed on Type 056A ASW variant corvette