Now imagine if its the other way around (US had something to show while the chinese didnt), do you think western narratives would have been different or worse?
Mystery aircraft 4th August 2025: CCA vs other
- Thread starter Deino
- Start date
When US showed off B-21 while H-20 still nowhere to be seen no western analyst said China is secretly ahead of US and showing B-21 will end up with China creating something better.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Italians see Donald Trump going Orangutan in public on every issue and they think that that US is calm and methodical? The US is about as calm and methodical as a school (or CDC) shooting right now LOL
It is impossible to hide after prototype flying, you can't relocate design firm, always watched by satellite anyway.
What China did was set the date, both flying at Xmas time, and make sure it was widely reported by flying J36 low enough.
So the difference is low key (satellite pick up) or high profile (tiktok news, public perception), no difference for foreign intelligence/military industry policy.
I bet US knew beforehand, that is why they come up with UFO stories at that time, as a coping psyop.
What makes you think that what you see are the top Chinese projects?
The CAC J-36, SAC J-XDS and this new aircraft are just the ones you see. There are almost certainly other projects shrouded in absolute secrecy.
So think of it this way. The US has the NGAD being tested in secret (so they say.) China also has projects being tested in secret like NGAD (so they say) and China has these new fighter aircraft designs that are executed all the way to the flying stage that they allow to be seen because they might not be the most cutting edge.
So it is NGAD versus China's secret projects (so they say.) But there is so far no Western equivalents for the stuff that are flying. These things popped out of nowhere already flying without even a single PPT or CG like NGAD. No one had any clue. What makes you think there are not others that people are completely unaware of until they are allowed to show themselves?
No one, especially China, will show you its cutting edge. The West brags of its fighting prowess, China doesn't. China is far more likely to hide its projects.
It's nothing surprising, it would be surprising if the western media didn't question China. The current J36 and J50 are just repeating what the J20 did over a decade ago, suffering the same skepticism, and the same will be in service in a few years. I'm just curious why the western media hasn't learned the lesson of the J20 and is still naive
You're curious why the
The vast majority of NAFO still believe that J-50 and J-36 are X planes and not at least airframe 2011 level prototypes for J-20.
The reality is that J-36 and J-50 are the winners out of at least 7 (other sources have stated 8) Chinese X planes for the 6th gen fighter (defined here as J-20 and J-35 superseders). The US NGAD/PCA -> F-47 only just passed the X plane stage where China was at back in 2018. Sorry... where China was finishing up back in 2018. The F-47 is only now approaching planning. They only had X planes flying back in 2021. All of this was admitted by the US itself if one reads all the news surrounding the topic of FA-xx and NGAD over the last 8 months.
The US has told the world officially that they have flown X planes in 2021 (probably only scaled models like the X-36). China flew their pre-selection X planes for 6th gen fighters far earlier. The US has not flown prototypes for 6th gen fighter. The US has not even built a 6th gen fighter by their own admission in recent months. They only managed to award the F-47 contract to Boeing based on X plane flyoff and probably decision based on digital computation work rather than the old school full demonstrator fly offs. They admitted Boeing hasn't built a F-47 prototype and admitted that they are only now working on developing a prototype and refining what the F-47 will be based on the existing winning X plane. All of this is public information for the refined military observer. Notice how the US top brass mentioned they will be iterating through hundreds of 6th gen designs? Yes... that is using computation fluid dynamics and digital simulations. I mean, everyone does that nowadays. It's not impressive. It's just ummm normal but impressive to the under-talented NAFO layman.
China did all this and finished it around 2018-2019. Since then, they've completed the refining of the winning X planes and created at least 1 prototype from each winning design bureau. China is about 2 steps ahead of the US on these fronts. The unknowns are the details and exact capabilities and differences between but those factors are quite unknown to both sides.
Of course the US knew the general projects of the Chinese programs and vice versa which is why they said back around 2023 that they think China will fly 6th gen first. I mean the Americans literally told us softly (recall it was some USAF general or higher up) that the world may see China fly 6th generation fighters but wanted to assure the American public that US is better. No one truly knows if they are. NAFO certainly has blinding arrogance of their superiority. I mean that has always been true throughout history and at every level of humanity. The established king has his day but the moment of his downfall always comes long after his peak has past, without him truly knowing or accepting.
China's scientific and technological prowess is underestimated by the majority, the mainstream. Its processes and true workings are too foreign and unrecognisable to the average western observer and so they will always be misinformed and biased. The US military though is not the mainstream observer and gives China due credit behind the rest of the West chest thumping in arrogance. Chinese leaders probably understand this quite well and give due respect to Western militaries as well. Hence why this Cold War 2.0 is more of an economic and tech war than a kinetic one. Military is just a derivation of your economic, industrial and scientific might. The war will likely be lost and won without full kinetic fighting, lets hope.
The very existence of this forum proves that China is remarkably bad at showing off its new gadgets.
If it wants to show off, the easiest way is a blurry PowerPoint presentation, not three tailless aircraft showcasing the latest in aviation technology.
Two of Europe's planned fighter jets are not tailless aircraft, something they wouldn't even bother to showcase on PowerPoint.
@styx
China is ahead in airframe design and electronics including sensors. They are behind in engines.
With regards to your comment about the MiG-25 it was not made to show off. It was made to intercept the XB-70 Valkyrie bomber.
MiG-25 was a crash program which used then state of the art airframe technology. For example the airframe isn't riveted but of all welded construction. It is made of stainless steel to withstand the high temperatures experienced at high Mach 2 flight. It was cheap enough the Soviets produced over a thousand of them. Because the US used titanium on the SR-71 it was only produced in a handful of numbers.
As a compromise to save time the Soviets used existing drone engines which had limited lifetime but they were good enough back then. Eventually in the MiG-31 they made a specific engine for it without the flaws of the old one.
MiG-25 has limited manueverability but you don't need high agility to intercept bombers.
You just get into position to fire your huge BVR missiles at the bombers then bug out.
It does not even have have a gun because it is pointless in this design.
It was a perfect design for the task it was assigned to do. It was just that US could never get the XB-70 Valkyrie to work. So meh.
As for the F-15 the Soviets designed the Su-27 to counter it. Which is a much better aircraft.
You shouldn't judge an aircraft without knowing what it was designed to do and the environment it is operating in.
I am kind of sick of the US selling vaporware as the greatest thing since slice sliced bread. But Americans were always great snake oil salesmen.
The truth is there isn't even an engine for the F-47 yet. It seems like they want a different size engine to the XA101 so they will have to redo the engine prototypes all over again wasting considerable time.
China is ahead in airframe design and electronics including sensors. They are behind in engines.
With regards to your comment about the MiG-25 it was not made to show off. It was made to intercept the XB-70 Valkyrie bomber.
MiG-25 was a crash program which used then state of the art airframe technology. For example the airframe isn't riveted but of all welded construction. It is made of stainless steel to withstand the high temperatures experienced at high Mach 2 flight. It was cheap enough the Soviets produced over a thousand of them. Because the US used titanium on the SR-71 it was only produced in a handful of numbers.
As a compromise to save time the Soviets used existing drone engines which had limited lifetime but they were good enough back then. Eventually in the MiG-31 they made a specific engine for it without the flaws of the old one.
MiG-25 has limited manueverability but you don't need high agility to intercept bombers.
You just get into position to fire your huge BVR missiles at the bombers then bug out.
It does not even have have a gun because it is pointless in this design.
It was a perfect design for the task it was assigned to do. It was just that US could never get the XB-70 Valkyrie to work. So meh.
As for the F-15 the Soviets designed the Su-27 to counter it. Which is a much better aircraft.
You shouldn't judge an aircraft without knowing what it was designed to do and the environment it is operating in.
I am kind of sick of the US selling vaporware as the greatest thing since slice sliced bread. But Americans were always great snake oil salesmen.
The truth is there isn't even an engine for the F-47 yet. It seems like they want a different size engine to the XA101 so they will have to redo the engine prototypes all over again wasting considerable time.
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I agree with the general thrust of your argument, but AFAIK there is no evidence that China wrapped up its 6th gen X-plane fly-off/competition in 2018-2019. The one we have of a likely Chinese 6th gen demonstrator was taken in 2021, around the same time the U.S. X-planes first flew.
IMO, the most likely scenario is that China's programs simply progressed faster into the EMD phase than their U.S. equivalents.