Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
If the system doesn't function as designed, it would not be deployed to operational units. Of course, in operational use, further problems may so up and will need to be fixed. But that's far from dismissing the system as a deception.

Of course PLA always like to maintain a degree of ambiguity with regard to its capabilities. So the question is...

do_you_feel_lucky_punk_xlarge.png
I never said it was I simply stated that it doesn't mean it works as advertised.
Does DF21 have the potential to do damage? yes. is it ready for prime time???? That is the Question. and When It is Ready will it really reign supreme?...
To answer your Dirty Harry quote I offer this.
[video=youtube_share;_VrFV5r8cs0]http://youtu.be/_VrFV5r8cs0[/video]
 

shen

Senior Member
I never said it was I simply stated that it doesn't mean it works as advertised.
Does DF21 have the potential to do damage? yes. is it ready for prime time???? That is the Question. and When It is Ready will it really reign supreme?...
To answer your Dirty Harry quote I offer this.
[video=youtube_share;_VrFV5r8cs0]http://youtu.be/_VrFV5r8cs0[/video]

touche :) haha

This analysis is from 2010, but it is still the best information based on open source information.
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Is DF-21D battle tested? No. But it would be foolish to think it is a deception campaign at this point. Otherwise USN will be caught off guard and an American carrier will suffer the same fate as the destroyer Eliate, sunk by an unproven weapon.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
that's only partially true. The Threat has to be realistic to the mind of the Deterred. that's the key here. The Deterrence has to be a threat that is real to the mind of your foe. it doesn't have to be real. The Enemy has to think it is though. Jeff understands that. Although I don't think it is a toothless system, I am not that bold. DF21D is aimed to deterre, But the PRC leaderships knows that if they sink an American carrier The responce would be far larger then conventional.
That said however my belief is that the DF21D has a expiration date. and that date will come in the form of a countermeasure. Rail gun technology in particular has my attention.
 
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shen

Senior Member
that's only partially true. The Threat has to be realistic to the mind of the Deterred. that's the key here. The Deterrence has to be a threat that is real to the mind of your foe. it doesn't have to be real. The Enemy has to think it is though. Jeff understands that. Although I don't think it is a toothless system, I am not that bold. DF21D is aimed to deterre, But the PRC leaderships knows that if they sink an American carrier The responce would be far larger then conventional.
That said however my belief is that the DF21D has a expiration date. and that date will come in the form of a countermeasure. Rail gun technology in particular has my attention.

Second Artillery manual outlines a series of escalation steps with regard to the use of DF-21D. Warning shots fired ahead of a CSG. EMP warhead missiles to disable communication and sensors of CSG. Cluster warhead to disable CSG's ability to launch warplanes. Finally the death blow to sink carriers.

After each escalation, the US government will be given time to reconsider the role it want to play in internal Chinese affairs. The Chinese is defensive in nature.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
that's only partially true. The Threat has to be realistic to the mind of the Deterred. that's the key here. The Deterrence has to be a threat that is real to the mind of your foe. it doesn't have to be real. The Enemy has to think it is though. Jeff understands that. Although I don't think it is a toothless system, I am not that bold. DF21D is aimed to deterre, But the PRC leaderships knows that if they sink an American carrier The responce would be far larger then conventional.

As I've said before, I doubt the PLA will seek to sink a carrier outright, given smashing even a 500kg RV into a carrier's hull may not assure enough damage to sink it. Cluster munitions on deck will probably be the aim -- a mission kill.

IF a carrier is somehow sunk, whether the US decides to escalate or decides to back down will depend on how events play prior to it. US anger at events like pearl harbour and 9/11 were partly due to their "cowardly" and "underhanded" nature. Sinking a legitimate military target, if preceded by prior warnings, especially when the target itself has massive offensive capability? Well... who knows.

That said, I do think the US military and US public have become a little too casual about their military deployments, that it is normal and acceptable to achieve military victories with little loss of one's own forces. If something like a carrier is lost, it would probably cause immense soul searching.
The question should less be whether China is prepared for the consequences of attacking a carrier, but whether the US is prepared for the consequence of deploying a carrier.


That said however my belief is that the DF21D has a expiration date. and that date will come in the form of a countermeasure. Rail gun technology in particular has my attention.

That's ridiculous. that's like saying cruise missiles have an expiration date because SAMs and ciws are a valid counter.

The easiest way to counter AShBM is to disrupt the kill chain instead of trying to terminal kill it.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
As I've said before, I doubt the PLA will seek to sink a carrier outright, given smashing even a 500kg RV into a carrier's hull may not assure enough damage to sink it. Cluster munitions on deck will probably be the aim -- a mission kill.

IF a carrier is somehow sunk, whether the US decides to escalate or decides to back down will depend on how events play prior to it. US anger at events like pearl harbour and 9/11 were partly due to their "cowardly" and "underhanded" nature. Sinking a legitimate military target, if preceded by prior warnings, especially when the target itself has massive offensive capability? Well... who knows.

That said, I do think the US military and US public have become a little too casual about their military deployments, that it is normal and acceptable to achieve military victories with little loss of one's own forces. If something like a carrier is lost, it would probably cause immense soul searching.
The question should less be whether China is prepared for the consequences of attacking a carrier, but whether the US is prepared for the consequence of deploying a carrier.




That's ridiculous. that's like saying cruise missiles have an expiration date because SAMs and ciws are a valid counter.

The easiest way to counter AShBM is to disrupt the kill chain instead of trying to terminal kill it.

Wow, really, too casual, just let anyone mount an assault of any kind on a US carrier, and see what happens, the good ole DF-21 is more likely to trigger a all out assault, on those who launched it, than any other weapon save an ICBM.. Even if you miss, and as Mr. Head has pointed out, this is a very complex system, I would advise all that the US tests all of its weapons systems, as does Russia, and there are a very significant number of failures, even on more mature systems. To assume the DF-21 is mature is very naïve, does the US consider it a threat, of course, and there are many systems in play to mitigate that threat....... so while we are casual---(we don't really consider anyone intelligent enough to design/deploy the DF-21, dumb enough to use it against a US carrier), it is because those who know us, know that kind of provocation, will result in a chain of events, that set in motion will leave the perpetrator of said stoopidity, unable to engage in further similar stoopidity. as Forrest Gump says, "stupid is, as stupid does".
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Second Artillery manual outlines a series of escalation steps with regard to the use of DF-21D. Warning shots fired ahead of a CSG. EMP warhead missiles to disable communication and sensors of CSG. Cluster warhead to disable CSG's ability to launch warplanes. Finally the death blow to sink carriers.

After each escalation, the US government will be given time to reconsider the role it want to play in internal Chinese affairs. The Chinese is defensive in nature.

Prolly should dispense with the "warning shots", when people start shooting, we shoot back! even you ought remember the line in top-gun, "do not fire, unless fired upon", still official US policy in regards to "visitors".
 
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