Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

s002wjh

Junior Member
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Whether they'd be at a "disadvantage" is debatable seeing as we can argue this is a new game for everyone...

Yes there are many systems/sensors that DF-21D can use but not all of them needs to be operational for it to work. I.e: You can argue the "more system used for the DF21", the greater the redundancy in case of losing one >_>

redundancy usually mean backup. however all the system in DF21 requuire to work properly, conjunction with other system in order for DF21 to operate 100% if US jam/destroy OHradar, or satelite or other system, then it bascially seal DF21. if china has multiple system that has same operation, then you could said its redundancy.

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

All of Americans or is it the neocons that only sees it that way about China being "ingrate" about about America "helping them slip out of Japan"? Uhhh....it was China who caused the most damaged to the Japanese army and they fought the Japanese for longer period of times than America. Japan uses most of her resources battling the Japanese, meanwhile keeping her busy for the Americans to retake the Pacific Islands. Your history is as flawed as your view, therefore I suggest you go back to reading the WHOLE parts instead of the one you like.


Even Americans try to see themselves as the last empire for man kind, but it looks like it's gonna be the fastest one to out of the number one ranking.

As for as EMCON goes I'll say it's NOT 100% effective.

actually without US intervention, the war in china won't end that soon. more chinese would die in the hands of japanese. it is because US push Japan all the back from pacific, and drop 2 bomb that ended the war.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Has the company who discovered the Varyag ever declared they were using their satellite to find the carrier? If you have a link that supports that conclusion please post it in your response.

It is you who claimed that varyag was found accidentally so the onus is on you to prove it

I think you do not understand what the meaning of the word ROSAT means. Here is the correct meaning. Notice that it is a radar satellite used to provide targeting information against the American carriers. Since radar is radar, the Russian radar satellites were no different than the ones used today by the Chinese

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I don't want to quibble about abbreviation . the fact is satellite by itself it totally useless unless you have the backroom support system. like network, processing power, automatic detection, relay and communication satellites. That is why Rosat never works as intended


The carrier does not need to give continuous radio signals to aircraft. Here is a reference on the carrier using EMCON. In fact the carrier is perfectly capable of carrying out flight operations just using the E-2 AWACS as the flight controller without broadcasting any signals at all.

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I don't mean the communication between the fighter and carrier . When fighter jet landed they are guided by radar because they used Instrument carrier landing system similar to civilian counter part of Icl and that one emmit radio wave

The Carrier Controlled Approach is analogous to ground-controlled approach using the ship's precision approach radar. Pilots are told (via voice radio) where they are in relation to glideslope and final bearing (e.g., "above glideslope, right of centerline"). The pilot then makes a correction and awaits further information from the controller.

The Instrument Carrier Landing System (ICLS) is very similar to civilian ILS systems and is used on virtually all Case III approaches. A "bullseye" is displayed for the pilot, indicating aircraft position in relation to glideslope and final bearing. The Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS) is similar to the ICLS, in that it displays "needles" that indicate aircraft position in relation to glideslope and final bearing. An approach utilizing this system is said to be a "Mode II" approach. Additionally, some aircraft are capable of "coupling" their autopilots to the glideslope/azimuth signals received via data link from the ship, allowing for a "hands-off" approach. If the pilot keeps the autopilot coupled until touchdown, this is referred to as a "Mode I" approach. If the pilot maintains a couple until the visual approach point (at 3/4 mile) this is referred to as a "Mode IIA" approach.


The UAV will have to let the PLAN know where it is. When that happens they will have to transmit. When that happens they will get that signal jammed.

Also a weapon to shoot down snooping UAVs has been unveiled. See the video here

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In other words dealing with a carrier is not as easy as you might think

China make some of the best jamming system in the world . I bet they know thing or two how to counter the jamming. One method is frequency hopping . Thy other one is to mask the signal with noise. still other to reduce the phase angle of the signal.In not so distance future they will built quantum teleportation.
So I would also said Jamming signal from a near peer foe is also not that easy

China's secure communications quantum leap
By Matthew Luce
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A team of 15 Chinese researchers from Tsinghua University in Beijing and the Hefei National Laboratory for Physical Sciences, a government-directed research center, in May published a research paper announcing a successful demonstration of "quantum teleportation" (liangzi yinxing chuan) over 16 kilometers of free space.

These researchers claimed to have the first successful experiment in the world. The technology on display has the potential to revolutionize secure communications for military and intelligence organizations and may become the watershed of a research race in communication and information technology.

Although much of the science behind this technology is still young, quantum technologies have wide-ranging applications for the fields of cryptography, remote sensing and secure satellite


---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 AM ----------

China have plenty of bright people who invent thing
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Chinese researcher wants to complete quantum satellite by 2015

Pan hopes to help China launch its first quantum satellite in 2015. (Photo/CNS)

A prominent scientist in China has shared his plans to develop a quantum satellite within ten years.

Pan Jianwei, who is the youngest scientist at China's Academy of Science, said he entered his field purely out of interest. After receiving his master's degree from the University of Science and Technology in China, Pan went to the Universitat Wien in Austria for his PhD. When he graduated in 1999, quantum was not yet considered a crucial subject to research in China, and it took Pan several years to secure funds for his research.

As more and more quantum researchers sprung up in China, Pan found more partners for his projects. In 2009, Pan and his colleagues created the world's first quantum telephone network. Now Pan says he wants to complete a quantum satellite by year 2015.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

redundancy usually mean backup. however all the system in DF21 requuire to work properly, conjunction with other system in order for DF21 to operate 100% if US jam/destroy OHradar, or satelite or other system, then it bascially seal DF21. if china has multiple system that has same operation, then you could said its redundancy.

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------



actually without US intervention, the war in china won't end that soon. more chinese would die in the hands of japanese. it is because US push Japan all the back from pacific, and drop 2 bomb that ended the war.

Actually it's more like without China involvement and resistant movement to keep the Japanese busy, if not for that, the US would suffered a lot more casualties because it would prolong the fight not only in the Pacific Islands but also all over East Asia and Southeast Asia as well. This incorrect thinking by neocons in believing the US fought and defeated the Axis power all by herself during WWII is a waste. The US enter the war late, when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941, well after many other battles and conflicts fought all over Europe and the east Asian continent.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

redundancy usually mean backup. however all the system in DF21 requuire to work properly, conjunction with other system in order for DF21 to operate 100% if US jam/destroy OHradar, or satelite or other system, then it bascially seal DF21. if china has multiple system that has same operation, then you could said its redundancy.

That's exactly what I'm saying
I admit OTH stations and satellites are more crucial than say UAVs, but think about what you said. If the US managed to destroy one satellite, yes it will degrade the overall system slightly but hardly renders it inoperable.

See my post 1141.
For the system to work it isn't sensor + sensor + sensor, it's sensor and/or sensor and/or sensor.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

redundancy usually mean backup. however all the system in DF21 requuire to work properly, conjunction with other system in order for DF21 to operate 100% if US jam/destroy OHradar, or satelite or other system, then it bascially seal DF21. if china has multiple system that has same operation, then you could said its redundancy.

China is not some 3rd world country . They themselves export jamming system. And there is such thing as secure data link Good luck try to jam this

China's secure communications quantum leap
By Matthew Luce

A team of 15 Chinese researchers from Tsinghua University in Beijing and the Hefei National Laboratory for Physical Sciences, a government-directed research center, in May published a research paper announcing a successful demonstration of "quantum teleportation" (liangzi yinxing chuan) over 16 kilometers of free space.

These researchers claimed to have the first successful experiment in the world. The technology on display has the potential to revolutionize secure communications for military and intelligence organizations and may become the watershed of a research race in communication and information technology.

Although much of the science behind this technology is still young, quantum technologies have wide-ranging applications for the fields of cryptography, remote sensing and secure satellite
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

It is you who claimed that varyag was found accidentally so the onus is on you to prove it

Here's the proof that confirms Varyag was accidentally found while sailing in the Yellow Sea. There are many more that agree with this account.

"...American satellite company captures China’s carrier at sea

Dec - 15 | By: jefflee | no comments.
Filed under : Buzz News, General
A commercial satellite company in the US, DigitalGlobe, recently released photos of China’s first aircraft carrier, remodeled from Soviet-era carrier called Varyag, in the Yellow Sea.
The company said they accidentally found them when searching through photos they captured. The carrier should be on its sea trial. And judging from the waves at both sides of the giant vessel, it shoud be navigating at high speed."

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Another source:

"American satellite company captures China’s carrier at sea"

A commercial satellite company in the US, DigitalGlobe, recently released photos of China’s first aircraft carrier, remodeled from Soviet-era carrier called Varyag, in the Yellow Sea.

The company said they accidentally found them when searching through photos they captured. The carrier should be on its sea trial. And judging from the waves at both sides of the giant vessel, it shoud be navigating at high speed. Though the Pentagon hasn’t onfirmed it yet, DigitalGlobe was certain the vessel is China’s aircraftcarrier.

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So that confirms that this satellite just stumbled upon the Varyag while looking for something else. And to make matters worse the image was not identified until a couple of days later. By that time the Varyag was hundreds of miles away. Not much good if you need real time targeting information

---------- Post added 01-24-2012 at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was 01-23-2012 at 11:52 PM ----------

Well there are other sensors apart from optics which a UAV could be equipped with, anything from radar to ELINT type equipment which can still transmit valuable info back.

And you have to wonder what the effective range of a laser will be before optics or other UAV sensors detects it and take into account the UAV will likely be HALE and with a small RCS so you actualy need to detect the UAV in the first place which isn't a gievn.

And then what if the controllers decide to send another UAV to investigate on the off chance? Not worth attacking or dazzling the UAVs imo -- try to run your CVBG as silent, jam transmissions that UAVs could make if that's even possible... and depending on the phase the conflict is in, you could try all out attacking known sensor assets on the AShBM side (OTH radars, satellites etc. Subs, sonar arrays, UAVs, fishing boats and naval ships will be more difficult.). But that depends what stage of the conflict we're talking about.

I think the systems and methods for detection you are referring to is these

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---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------

As for as EMCON goes I'll say it's NOT 100% effective.

So just how effective do you think it is and what are you basing your thinking on?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Here's the proof that confirms Varyag was accidentally found while sailing in the Yellow Sea. There are many more that agree with this account.

"...American satellite company captures China’s carrier at sea

Dec - 15 | By: jefflee | no comments.
Filed under : Buzz News, General
A commercial satellite company in the US, DigitalGlobe, recently released photos of China’s first aircraft carrier, remodeled from Soviet-era carrier called Varyag, in the Yellow Sea.
The company said they accidentally found them when searching through photos they captured. The carrier should be on its sea trial. And judging from the waves at both sides of the giant vessel, it shoud be navigating at high speed."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It doesn't proof in anyway that you cannot find satellite giving the resources that China command they will find it !
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

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There are so many rules violations in this thread..it's off the chart. I invite all forum members to read the forum rules...again

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Particularly these..

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Thread closed for 24 hours to allow members to re-think their positions.

bd popeye super moderator

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Thread OPEN!

This thread is about what sort of a weapon will replace a CV.
This thread is about what sort off weapon could sink a CV.
This thread is about what sort of science used to sink or replace a CV.
This thread is about military maneuvers used to sink a CV.
This thread is about CV strategy used to stay alive during any sort of attack.
This thread is also about countries CVs strength and is it useful for defense or offense.

This thread IS NOT ABOUT..
Politics
nor personal attacks
personal insults
Country bashing
nationalistic chest thumping.

I'm sure I've made myself perfectly clear.


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