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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
You cannot just say China's success is due to one party control. Lots of nations have two-bit dictatorships that serve no one but themselves.
You need to take the whole statement that you quoted in combination instead of just this one part. And other nations followed socialism/Marxism/communism in some combination and failed; China is clearly different from them.
Yes, the CPC is able to evolve and incorporate new ideas, but that is not sufficient explanation for their success.
That's not the only part of the whole sentence that you quoted; the combination is what makes China great, not any one part.
How do they know in which direction to evolve? How do they know which ideas to incorporate and which ideas to discard?
Figure it out from watching the world and watching the market, trial and error and logical reasoning. That's how people usually figure things out.
For example, back in the 90s, China had this wave of privatization. Lots of SOEs were either dissolved or privatized, including retail, factories, and public transit. Yet, for some reason, the central government held on to the banking sector and the petroleum firms.

This was long before the financial tsunami of 2008 that revealed the inadequacies of a privately owned financial sector. Why did the Chinese government hold on to those two sectors despite the fact that they were as woefully inefficient as the rest of the SOEs that were being privatized?
They knew those were the pillars of energy and economy bloodlines. If something goes wrong and they go belly up, the country is paralyzed. Keep your control on the things you cannot afford to go wrong.
You cannot explain this with classical Chinese philosophy. Banks were privately owned in imperial China and the rulers never paid them much attention. You cannot explain this with Capitalist theory either, because according to that theory, those banks and petroleum firms should have been privatized.
CCP is unique and they developed their own system; they did not choose to follow imperial China or Capitalist America.
The only feasible explanation here is that Deng and Jiang were following Marxist principles even as they were transforming China into a mostly Capitalist economy.
Marx said you can let go of all your SOEs and allow them to become private but you need to hold onto your oil and and banking sectors??
Another example is China's focus on lifting the masses out of poverty. When the market reforms first started, Deng famously said, "let some people get rich first", and "to be rich is glorious". Why then did the CPC use income from the coastal lands to develop in-land cities and villages? Why did they not simply wait for market forces to spread the wealth across the country, as Capitalist theory advocates? The wealthy Capitalist nations certainly weren't doing this. The US left Detroit to rot after its auto industry failed.
Absolutely they did not follow capitalist theory but taking taxes from your more developed places in order to develop your impoverished places is common sense, is it not? If I were a ruler, that's how I'd develop my kingdom to reach its potential rather than letting the poor places rot from neglect without reading anything about Marx or socialism. It's how you turn half a great country into a whole great country, double your power with horizontal growth.

If you wanted to start a side-business based on your interest and you had a strong primary income, you would obviously use your primary income to fund that start-up of your side business rather than try to start it with no money, make one product from scraps, sell it and try to make your second product from the profit of your first, right? That's common sense; you don't need to read that from anywhere to know this is the way to go, right?
A third example is the way China treats its ethnic minority. China could have just left Tibet and Southern Xinjiang (where most of the Uyghurs dwell) to their own devices, like the US does with its Indian Reserves. Why did China instead spend huge amounts of wealth building infrastructure in those two parts of the country?
Common sense? Poor regions = untapped potential.
China could have forced Tibetans and Uyghurs to learn only Mandarin and assimilate them into the mainstream culture, much like the US does with its ethnic minorities, natives and immigrants alike. Why did China instead take painstaking measures to ensure ethnic minorities could receive education in their own language?
Did Marx say you need to preserve the diversity and cultures of your minorities? Where's this coming from? I just assume it's because China's a softie and wants to give advantages to the weak, which is in Chinese culture.
Why does China give preferential treatment to its ethnic minorities, at the expense of the Han majority?
That's quite frankly effed up. And "I just assume it's because China's a softie and wants to give advantages to the weak, which is in Chinese culture."
Why did China make those policy decisions, and how could they know if those were the right decisions?
The reasons are explained above. They know by taking the real time feedback on whether the goals are met and decide whether to continue a policy.

There are also instances that China clearly does not follow Marx's ideals, at least not anymore. One of Marx's core themes is that if you produce an item to sell rather than to use, and you use other's labor to produce it at less than the price you sell it for, you are exploiting these workers. I could barely believe this nonsense when I first read it. Without this theme, the economy would be non-existent and limited to what each man could do for himself. Nobody would open a business to employ workers paying them the same profit that you earn; there's no such reason to start this business for the employer and without it, all the employees would be jobless, which they can still choose to be regardless of whether or not this business existed. If China believed this and followed suit to stop the "exploitation," China would have no economy. Instead, Chinese workers labor harder than almost any other part of the world for bosses to become billionaires starting globally-competitive companies. China's obviously correct disregard for the core Marxist principle shows that it cannot be considered Marxist or socialist even if other details can line up simply due to common sense or commonality of all maturing economies.

Basically, I boil our conversation down to this:

You: That guy is a boxer. He's adherent to the philosophy of boxing.
Me: I don't think so. He punches, but he also just kicked a guy's face in and then rolled him onto the ground for full mount into key lock breaking his elbow. Those are from Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Boxing, Karate, and BJJ. The guy's an MMA fighter.
You: No, he's sticking to the core principles of boxing. He strikes, be blocks, he dodges, and be bobs his head. If he weren't a boxer, how would he do all these boxing things?
Me: Those movements are common to many forms. Boxing specifically doesn't use legs or ground game and he's doing both like an expert. You cannot say that he's a boxer just because he's doing some things that boxing has in common with other forms even though he's violating the core principles of boxing, which is no throws/ground game and no kicks. He has some boxing strikes but he's not a boxer.
 
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horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Another American Strategic win:

"I have had 15 price increases from my primary steel supplier since September,” said Scott Buehrer, president of B. Walter & Co., a Wabash, Ind., maker of fabricated metal products. “What’s the justification for these tariffs when you have sky-high steel prices?”


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This I truly object to this.

Stupidity is no good for humanity in general.

Biden should have reversed all of President Trump's tariffs. But Biden is a gutless puke, so he did not.

Now everyone pays higher prices, and that is due to the tax. The American government is taxing the American people!

Could to think of it, we know how the Chinese are. They probably said nothing, wanted it this way ... LOLz.

:p
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
You cannot just say China's success is due to one party control. Lots of nations have two-bit dictatorships that serve no one but themselves.

Yes, the CPC is able to evolve and incorporate new ideas, but that is not sufficient explanation for their success. How do they know in which direction to evolve? How do they know which ideas to incorporate and which ideas to discard?

For example, back in the 90s, China had this wave of privatization. Lots of SOEs were either dissolved or privatized, including retail, factories, and public transit. Yet, for some reason, the central government held on to the banking sector and the petroleum firms.

This was long before the financial tsunami of 2008 that revealed the inadequacies of a privately owned financial sector. Why did the Chinese government hold on to those two sectors despite the fact that they were as woefully inefficient as the rest of the SOEs that were being privatized?

You cannot explain this with classical Chinese philosophy. Banks were privately owned in imperial China and the rulers never paid them much attention. You cannot explain this with Capitalist theory either, because according to that theory, those banks and petroleum firms should have been privatized.

The only feasible explanation here is that Deng and Jiang were following Marxist principles even as they were transforming China into a mostly Capitalist economy.

Another example is China's focus on lifting the masses out of poverty. When the market reforms first started, Deng famously said, "let some people get rich first", and "to be rich is glorious". Why then did the CPC use income from the coastal lands to develop in-land cities and villages? Why did they not simply wait for market forces to spread the wealth across the country, as Capitalist theory advocates? The wealthy Capitalist nations certainly weren't doing this. The US left Detroit to rot after its auto industry failed.

A third example is the way China treats its ethnic minority. China could have just left Tibet and Southern Xinjiang (where most of the Uyghurs dwell) to their own devices, like the US does with its Indian Reserves. Why did China instead spend huge amounts of wealth building infrastructure in those two parts of the country? China could have forced Tibetans and Uyghurs to learn only Mandarin and assimilate them into the mainstream culture, much like the US does with its ethnic minorities, natives and immigrants alike. Why did China instead take painstaking measures to ensure ethnic minorities could receive education in their own language? Why does China give preferential treatment to its ethnic minorities, at the expense of the Han majority?

Why did China make those policy decisions, and how could they know if those were the right decisions?
I just finished watching this Chinese professor's explanation of the Chinese economic miracle and I wonder what's your take on his distilled assessment of the Chinese economic reform and model plus reasons on how China managed to grow at break neck speed economically.

 

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
"More than 10,000 people attended the rally, some carrying banners written in English, Arabic and Amharic. Slogans included: "USA show us your neutrality", "Ethiopia doesn't need a caretaker", and "Fill the dam", a reference to a huge Nile dam opposed by Egypt and Sudan."

How's that new 5G the govt signed with the U.S. looking now? Why do countries never learn? When you give an inch to the U.S. they will simply take 1 km and then some.

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Ethiopian government coup incoming. Maybe CIA will decide Juan Guaido is the rightful president of Ethiopia.
 
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