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Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
tresriogrande said:
The topic came up when some here complained China didn't help Iran. Your logic is that it's because China didn't make itself loved by Iranians. The burden is on Iran to prove itself worthy. Iran sold out Huawei. Iran didn't care the JF17 from Pakistan and sided with India.
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No, I just want to refute the argument that if someone in the world says in a survey about geopolitics that they don't view Chinese influence in their country as positive, that might just be because of politics and not racism. Some people here are extremely thin skinned and think anyone who doesn't love China must be a racist. Maybe don't label whole nations as racists that quickly. Just a suggestion

Regarding Huawei, Iran was clearly very interested in Chinese technology but ever since the kidnapping of Meng Wanzhou, Chinese companies have been to scared to do business in Iran. That's the core of the issue. Chinese private and state companies are more interested in access to western markets than small sales to Iran. The result is that Iran is weaker and poorer. And that's why an Iranian guy might tell a western polling agency that they don't see China positively. Not because they hate Chinese people but because they feel that China is essentially sanctioning them even though they didn't do anything to harm China

About the jf17, I'm somehow very doubtful that Iran wouldn't buy it if Pakistan was willing to sell. They're desperate to get any planes they can get their hands on. It's more likely similar to the gas pipeline they're trying to get running which keeps getting delayed because the US tells Pakistan that it's not allowed to do that and Pakistan obeys. If Pakistan, which clearly needs more energy, is unwilling to buy Iranian gas against US wishes, why would they defy the US to sell fighter jets to Iran??
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
pevade said:
Also the RAT (Ram Air Turbine) deployed to provide electric power. This means that there either was complete loss of power from both engines or catastrophic loss of hydraulic pressure. Im leaning towards a dual engine failure.
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Amidst all the theories that are emerging buttressed by often disputed evidence, I found this post from iamtom on
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interesting on the evidence for RAT deployment:

I've been seeing a lot of talk about the possibility of the RAT being deployed shortly after take off. Personally I think it's impossible to say from looking at the video, there does appear to be a dark line that is clearly not the gear, but it could just be a video artefact.

However, I come from an audio engineering background so I have been doing some experimentation with the audio from the video and comparing the frequencies of a known 787 RAT from a Boeing test video, where it is isolated without engine noise. I then compared it to a boeing test video of a 787-8 at take off thrust and another comparison to a JAL flight with both thrust and RAT.

From the 2 known and confirmed examples of the audio with RAT, the drone noise the RAT makes is strongest in the 350-700Hz frequency range. Taking the audio from the original higher quality AI171 fly-by video (according to the post), I can clearly identify RAT noise around the same 350-700Hz frequency range. It is very distinctive and when both confirmed RAT videos AND the AI171 audio is ran through a professional tuning app, they are all hovering around middle G (approx 391Hz) with an increasing pitch curve.

Lastly, I found a take off video of a 787 with the same Genx engines and extracted the audio to compare. There is clearly an absence of droning at the same frequency range, which was expected as there is clearly no RAT deployed.

My conclusion? I'd say with a high degree of certainty that the RAT sounding noise in the AI171 fly by video is a RAT and certainly not attributable to a passing car or motorcycle.

The only question is if the video's audio is real and undoctored. That I certainly can't answer.
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Between the survivor's account of lights flickering on take-off, signs that the landing gear had indeed commenced retraction process, and evidence for RAT deployment, the theory that the pilots simply pulled the wrong lever (retracting flaps instead of landing gear) appears increasingly shaky.
 
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enroger

Senior Member
Registered Member
Minm said:
No, I just want to refute the argument that if someone in the world says in a survey about geopolitics that they don't view Chinese influence in their country as positive, that might just be because of politics and not racism. Some people here are extremely thin skinned and think anyone who doesn't love China must be a racist. Maybe don't label whole nations as racists that quickly. Just a suggestion

Regarding Huawei, Iran was clearly very interested in Chinese technology but ever since the kidnapping of Meng Wanzhou, Chinese companies have been to scared to do business in Iran. That's the core of the issue. Chinese private and state companies are more interested in access to western markets than small sales to Iran. The result is that Iran is weaker and poorer. And that's why an Iranian guy might tell a western polling agency that they don't see China positively. Not because they hate Chinese people but because they feel that China is essentially sanctioning them even though they didn't do anything to harm China

About the jf17, I'm somehow very doubtful that Iran wouldn't buy it if Pakistan was willing to sell. They're desperate to get any planes they can get their hands on. It's more likely similar to the gas pipeline they're trying to get running which keeps getting delayed because the US tells Pakistan that it's not allowed to do that and Pakistan obeys. If Pakistan, which clearly needs more energy, is unwilling to buy Iranian gas against US wishes, why would they defy the US to sell fighter jets to Iran??
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Based on that logic, do explain why Iranians still love US that much more. If they perceive China to be doing these bad things sanctioning them, surely the US is 100 times worse no? But Iranians absolutely love US of A, explain that logic to me, go on.

I'm leading you towards a certain conclusion, just need you to say it out loud
 
Tomboy

Tomboy

Junior Member
Registered Member
enroger said:
Based on that logic, do explain why Iranians still love US that much more. If they perceive China to be doing these bad things sanctioning them, surely the US is 100 times worse no? But Iranians absolutely love US of A, explain that logic to me, go on.

I'm leading you towards a certain conclusion, just need you to say it out loud
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Who could hate the land of the free and more importantly the birthplace of Dr. Pepper ./s
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Minm said:
Some people are complaining that Iran doesn't love China. All I'm doing is explaining why this is the case. If China doesn't want to be liked by others that's totally fine. It's just hypocritical from certain members to complain that Iranian public opinion isn't as pro China as they think they deserve, when China's actions havent always been very friendly to Iran.

Please understand. I'm not saying that China is doing anything wrong, it's a fair strategy. But if your strategy is to go it alone, why are you surprised that others don't worship you?
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Still waiting on that 400 billion agreement

First they signed it, leaked it, but still haven't implemented it. US pretended throwing them some bones, and then Iran decisively abandoned the deal with China

They should learn that, if they want an investor, the investor expects RoI. If they cannot understand that and think they are better without an investor, let them eat cake and Israeli bombs now.
 
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enroger

Senior Member
Registered Member
Tomboy said:
Who could hate the land of the free and more importantly the birthplace of Dr. Pepper ./s
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Damn I'm having some dejavu, I had the exact same argument with a Persian many years ago. He complained China is taking advantage of Iran due to the sanctions, but he absolutely had no problems with USA which is the one sanctioning them..... I explained this logic to him and his brain melt down from revelation
 
M

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
enroger said:
I don't know if China caved from US pressure, but I'm pretty sure I read about Iranian politicians opposing the deal leading to it's abandonment so there is that. If you have any proofs or reporting hinting at China's fault, feel free to post them so we can get a clearer picture.

I don't know how you can compare the relation of China and Iran to Iran and Hezbollah, was Iran a puppet of China? Funded and armed by China? Trained by China? I don't think so. In fact did China even claimed to be Iran's ally? Was there a defense pact?

If the answer is "No" to these question then how can Iranian feel "betrayal" by China? When China was just trying to deepen cooperation's with Iran and Iranians expect China to arm them already? Do you want a couple squadrons of J-20 too while we're at it?

It almost looks like Iranians feeling entitled to limitless help and they didn't get it so they feel betrayed?
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China’s empty promise
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Officials at the Iranian embassy in China have repeatedly complained to this author that despite Tehran’s having signed onto the Belt and Road Initiative and, in 2o21, the China-Iran 25-year Cooperation Program, Chinese investment in Iran has been minimal.

China has only invested a fraction of the $400 billion it promised. Iranian embassy officials have sent multiple complaints to the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other departments but to no avail.
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I think it's clear the Iranians want Chinese investment if they're begging at the NDRC. Is there too much corruption, money laundering and risk of doing business in Iran? For sure. But I have a hard time believing it's worse than in Iraq or Pakistan where Chinese workers are literally getting murdered regularly. So it must be by choice. Maybe used as a bargaining chip in the trade war? Whatever the real reason, ordinary people on the street get the impression that China made a big promise and didn't deliver. It has nothing to do with racism

enroger said:
Iranian politicians opposing the deal
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They made the mistake of having a parliament in which opposition politicians will say anything to bring down the government so that they can take over after. You shouldn't take random opposition politicians too seriously, they just lie

I don't think Iran feels entitled to Chinese military aid, but would like to be allowed to pay money to buy what China is offering to countries like Saudi Arabia. When your enemies are sanctioning and embargoing you that's one thing. When your supposed friends join in the sanctions, that's worse. My impression is that China is refusing to sell fighter jets to Iran because it wants to sell even more to the Arabs. That's fair enough. But obviously people in Iran aren't going to be happy about China preferring US allies over them. That shouldn't be surprising
 
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neutralobserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
@Minm China is diplomatically supporting Iran

China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, spoke to both his Israeli and Iranian counterparts on Saturday, according to a statement from Beijing’s foreign ministry.

Wang told Iran’s Abbas Araghchi that China would support Tehran in “defending its legitimate rights and interests”, the ministry said, while he told the Israeli foreign minister, Gideon Sa’ar, that Beijing opposed Israel’s actions of “attacking
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with force”, the statements said.
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iewgnem

Senior Member
Registered Member
Minm said:
If there were secret Chinese help, there'd at least be some rumours or accusations from the west. Even if there's something super secret, you can see why ordinary Iranians who don't know about secret help, wouldn't be that enthusiastic about China. If China doesn't want allies that's fine. Just don't pretend it's the other guy's fault. And don't be surprised when the time for war comes, the rest of the world will sit back and watch Chinese and Americans kill each other on TV
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70% of all NATO equipment and troops in Ukraine are being killed by Chinese drones with hundreds of hours of direct video evidence, there are fields in Ukraine filled with Chinese fiberoptics, every drone video is from a DJI and there are Russian sniper videos with literal Chinese on the thermal UI. This has been going on for +2 years now, all in the public, not even secret, do you see any accusation from the west? lol.

Xi meets with Putin twice a year and literally openly talk about military cooperation and change the world order together, and you got the west will still pretend China is neutral. The west need their own public to believe China isn't helping Russia militarizly because they'd rather lose tens of thousands of men than lose face by failing to stop China. Trump tried and got immediately slapped, western liberals simply are smarter.

Iran has no ability to build their weapons without Chinese parts and components. Neither the Houthis nor Iran has the ablity to locate American ships in combat state in the Red Sea, and everything in Iran is constructed with Chinese imports the same as every other country. Your problem is you construct your reality based exclusively on western propaganda, there are a couple of explainations but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt for now, but don't pretend we're not fullly aware it's the west's objective to put a wedge between China and Iran.

When the time comes of course the rest of the world will watch China and America fight it out, even NATO will watch on the sidelines and even if US invoke Article 5.
 
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