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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
plawolf said:
What’s a bigger threat to smooth and timely procurement, a system where corruption leads to arrests and prosecution even at the highest levels; or a system that legalises corruption on the grandest scale?
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A system where (known cases) 1/3 of the CMC was corrupt?

Tbh I consider this more of a historical issue. I fully expect that >50% of higher ups are corrupt in some way or another due to the past legacy of military corruption since Deng or even Mao. And because these people are the oldest and the most experienced, of course they are going to climb the ranks first

IMO only way is to quickly but steadily remove them and wait for the new generation which has grown up in a more orderly and law-based society to climb up through the ranks


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Sinnavuuty

Sinnavuuty

Captain
Registered Member
tankphobia said:
PLA have had a recent string of high profile officials being investigated for corruption, yet procurement projects seems to have ran relatively smoothly and delivered products in a timely manner for the most part, what gives?
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Dong Jun's case may be connected to Miao Hua's because when Dong served as Vice Admiral, Miao Hua was serving as Director of the PLAN's Political Work Department.
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In my opinion, Miao Hua's importance is greater than Dong Jun's. Dong was not even a member of the CMC, since Miao was not only a member of the CMC and the head of one of the most important departments of the PLA, but also an ally of Xi.

Edit:
A follow-up post but I'm not sure I agree with this assessment:
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Member of the Central Military Commission of China, head of the Political Work Department of the Central Military Commission Miao Hua was removed from office and put under investigation on suspicion of serious violations of discipline.

Miao Hua 苗华 - one of the ideologists and "architects" of the Taiwan operation, along with the head of the Central Committee Secretariat Cai Qi - the highest-ranking member of the Fujian political group.

If the reports about the detention of the Minister of Defense, sailor Dong Jun are true, then they are gathering in a common "fleet case".

It is not known what exactly the group was preparing - a plot to sabotage the operation, or a plot to deploy it despite resistance, but it is obvious that there is a fierce struggle in China for the future direction of military operations.

Perhaps Dong Jun was Miao Hua's protege. Miao's removal from the game makes Zhang Yu-xia, Xi's fellow countryman, the most influential military man and, as a result, the most influential politician in China. Let's not guess Zhang Yu-xia's fate.

The PLA spent the entire year of 2023 cleaning up its missile forces, and now they've taken on the navy. The 37th is usually followed by the 41st.

I repeat that for China, 2025 is identical to 2020 in terms of domestic policy.
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I assume that some of the military are in favor of a strong preventive scenario, some are in favor of a moderate scenario with the possibility of reversing the situation, and some are in favor of abandoning the operation and defeating Xi Jinping's course: submarines have been sunk in China all year - it was beneficial for someone to show the unpreparedness of the fleet, especially the submarine, for the blockade of the island.

In 2023, the same combat incapacity was discovered in the missile forces.

No new appointments are known; contact with Russia took place at Belousov's level a little earlier in October. Dong Jun refused to communicate with Austin - perhaps he is no longer in office.

In general, combat control of the army remains: Xi Jinping, Zhang Yu-xia, He Weidong and Chief of the General Staff Liu Zhenli are in their posts.
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In addition, two groups have formed in the army command – from Shaanxi (Xi’s compatriots) and from Fujian, where Xi spent almost 20 years observing Taiwan with military binoculars: the Fujians probably advanced through the Dong Jun naval force, and Liu Zhenli became the chief of the General Staff. I thought Liu would become Minister of Defense – he has that chance again.

The emphasis is this: if the fleet leads the operation, then it is limited to a war at sea and a blockade; if the land component is strengthened, the likelihood of landing and using weapons of destruction of the ground forces also increases; that is, the operation can be extended.
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There is, of course, a third scenario: given the background of Zhang Yu-hsia and Liu Zhenli, the PLA may focus on a scenario of internal war during a period of economic instability, and certain agreements could be reached with Trump on Taiwan. However, the coming months will show everything: a blockade of Taiwan was being prepared in the coming days (literally until the end of the week), appointments will be made in December - the PLA's course will soon become clear.
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siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
ACuriousPLAFan said:
Oh look, seems like some group of people are getting more anxious and terrified after Trump's announcement of imminent mass deportation of those self-loathing bobablib Hanjian "润"-ers:

View attachment 140167View attachment 140168View attachment 140169

Those self-loathing bobalib Hanjian "润"-ers be like:

- Wanted for breaking Chinese law/owes huge debt in China/believes the US is a literal "heaven on earth"
- Decides to "润" to the US in order to escape responsibilities back in China and/or embrace "heaven" in the US
- "走线" to the US, live like roaches and work in slave/low-wage jobs as illegals
- Hating on their own homeland and countrymen, holding themselves as "superior" and lick Murican boots to seek validation
- Suddenly Trump wins
- Trump wants to deport them back to China,
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-
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- "How could they Muricans deport us loyal Murican subjects back to bad evil SeeSeePee!"
- Realizing that the Chinese people in China don't want them back in China either
- "How dare the Chinese people not pity us '润'-ers as 'compatriots' (同胞)!" "The Chinese government must reaccept and facilitate our return to Chinese society"

Honestly at this point, I'd like China to "deport" all of them to break rocks in Xizang and dig canals in Xinjiang - For as long as possible.
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Might be better to reroute them to Somalia where they can enjoy absolute freedom.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
tankphobia said:
PLA have had a recent string of high profile officials being investigated for corruption, yet procurement projects seems to have ran relatively smoothly and delivered products in a timely manner for the most part, what gives?
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In many countries, 0 generals are prosecuted for corruption.

They must be the least corrupt countries on earth with the best procurement.

Look at all their commendations and medals. They must be the greatest military officers ever.

800px-Lieutenant_General_Yogesh_Kumar_Joshi_UYSM_AVSM_VrC_SM%2C_General_Officer-Commanding-in-Chief_Northern_Command%2C_Indian_Army.jpg
 
I

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
tankphobia said:
PLA have had a recent string of high profile officials being investigated for corruption, yet procurement projects seems to have ran relatively smoothly and delivered products in a timely manner for the most part, what gives?
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There's a difference between allowing/missing low level corruption and being corrupt yourself. In the latter case, there will be a criminal court sentence, in the former case, the government just sacks you as you're considered bad at your job, but not criminal.

I would also guess that there's a higher than usual turnover because as US has intensified it's territorial aggression, generals are fighting eachother over who has the correct approach. The losers get fired.
 
GZDRefugee

GZDRefugee

Senior Member
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Incredibly naive. Just like how Xi Jinping thinks too well of Americans, Putin thinks too well of Europeans. How can you hope to improve relations with those who call you subhuman? Interestingly, the sources of hate are inverted in these two scenarios.

The hospitality shown to Xi Jinping by the Iowa family hosting him is not representative of the hatred for Red China held by the elites. Vice versa, the lip service European leaders pay for cheap resources is not representative of their populace seeing Russians as orcs to be exterminated.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
GZDRefugee said:
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Incredibly naive. Just like how Xi Jinping thinks too well of Americans, Putin thinks too well of Europeans. How can you hope to improve relations with those who call you subhuman? Interestingly, the sources of hate are inverted in these two scenarios.

The hospitality shown to Xi Jinping by the Iowa family hosting him is not representative of the hatred for Red China held by the elites. Vice versa, the lip service European leaders pay for cheap resources is not representative of their populace seeing Russians as orcs to be exterminated.
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LOL, anyone who thinks Putin is naive would do well to check their ego. We're talking about someone who eliminated Prigozhin the moment the threat of a mutiny has passed.

At the end of the day, the political and economic centre of Russia is in Europe, and that's where the majority of their interests lie. It would be much more foolish of Putin to appear belligerent to such an important aspect of Russia's foreign policy.
 
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