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solarz

solarz

Brigadier
GZDRefugee said:
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Incredibly naive. Just like how Xi Jinping thinks too well of Americans, Putin thinks too well of Europeans. How can you hope to improve relations with those who call you subhuman? Interestingly, the sources of hate are inverted in these two scenarios.

The hospitality shown to Xi Jinping by the Iowa family hosting him is not representative of the hatred for Red China held by the elites. Vice versa, the lip service European leaders pay for cheap resources is not representative of their populace seeing Russians as orcs to be exterminated.
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LOL, anyone who thinks Putin is naive would do well to check their ego. We're talking about someone who eliminated Prigozhin the moment the threat of a mutiny has passed.

At the end of the day, the political and economic centre of Russia is in Europe, and that's where the majority of their interests lie. It would be much more foolish of Putin to appear belligerent to such an important aspect of Russia's foreign policy.
 
GZDRefugee

GZDRefugee

Junior Member
Registered Member
solarz said:
LOL, anyone who thinks Putin is naive would do well to check their ego. We're talking about someone who eliminated Prigozhin the moment the threat of a mutiny has passed.

At the end of the day, the political and economic centre of Russia is in Europe, and that's where the majority of their interests lie. It would be much more foolish of Putin to appear belligerent to such an important aspect of Russia's foreign policy.
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Play nice and have the Europeans turn on you anyways as Euromaidan and the current Ukro-Russian war show. They were plotting Russia's downfall while supping from Russia's industry. Look at them now, publicly salivating at the prospect of Russia going the way of Yugoslavia.

To be frank, I'm being too nice. The Europeans didn't engineer these hostile actions, they're just doing as their American masters command.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
00CuriousObserver said:
Do you have a link to when Ayi said this?
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You should focus on the one who started this story from the begining (FT) before you move on to people who reject/question it. You give undeserved credit to a proven habitual lair. This is exactly how western propaganda works.

Instead of "I hear a rumor, I give it a chance to be true", one should "I hear a rumor without any base to substain it, I dismiss as a lie untill proven otherwise". The concept of fake news and disinformation is NOT to be proven right eventually, but to set a shadow in the public. The rumor being eventually fact or not is never the focus. Let me say this, EVEN IF it was proven right, I will still regard FT as trash because it did not provide proof when it made the "news". Being right or wrong is never my concern, but how one behaves when trying to get my attention. The one says "just trust me" is evil who trys to manipulate, the one presents some verifiable fact and reasoning instead of stuffing conclusions to people's throat is honest.
 
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GZDRefugee

GZDRefugee

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'll add a bit to this. Western Europe has hated the Slavs ever since the Eastern Orthodox Church split off the Roman Catholic Church in 1054. The Europeans have hated the Slavs for longer than they have hated "mongoloids." Even when it came to China, at least there was a period of begrudging respect. For the Slavs, Western Europeans wanted their heads on pikes on sight.
 
H

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
tankphobia said:
PLA have had a recent string of high profile officials being investigated for corruption, yet procurement projects seems to have ran relatively smoothly and delivered products in a timely manner for the most part, what gives?
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Even corruption works better in China apparently.

Still, how concerned are you guys about this?
 
I

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
GZDRefugee said:
Play nice and have the Europeans turn on you anyways as Euromaidan and the current Ukro-Russian war show. They were plotting Russia's downfall while supping from Russia's industry. Look at them now, publicly salivating at the prospect of Russia going the way of Yugoslavia.

To be frank, I'm being too nice. The Europeans didn't engineer these hostile actions, they're just doing as their American masters command.
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The other way around, it was Euros that were too naive. They were successfully wined and dined by Russian elites, thinking they could move into Russia any day and plunder it, like the countries in EU have been parasitized.

Putin led them on, making them think west-Russia reapproachment was possible. But in reality, the Russian ruling cadre has since the start decided to fully oppose the west, out of revenge for 1991.

Russia started the turn of the century with an economy the size of Italy... It was in no shape ready to perform any action. Now, it has climbed past all individual EU nations.

In 2016, the conventional understanding was that the west was in a position of strength, because although China had the individually larger economy, EU + US together would still have surpassed them. But the Russia gambit to weaken EU, prove that they're a paper tiger relative to their economy size, was a resounding success. Largely because of this mvoe and nothing else, the conventional understanding has shifted the position of strength to China.
 
I

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
HighGround said:
Even corruption works better in China apparently.

Still, how concerned are you guys about this?
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Intrigued more than concerned.

Actual corruption there was 1 major case ages ago. The latest spate of sacking were not with criminal charges.

So these people were not guilty of corruption or even accused of corruption at all, they were just removed because of perceived "inefficiency" but more likely political/strategy reasons. As I see it, because US has become so much more assertive, we're finally seeing a large scale reorientation in China. The peaceniks are being shelved, their successors are arriving to help formulate a new and improved defense strategy.
 
GZDRefugee

GZDRefugee

Junior Member
Registered Member
Index said:
The other way around, it was Euros that were too naive. They were successfully wined and dined by Russian elites, thinking they could move into Russia any day and plunder it, like the countries in EU have been parasitized.

Putin led them on, making them think west-Russia reapproachment was possible. But in reality, the Russian ruling cadre has since the start decided to fully oppose the west, out of revenge for 1991.

Russia started the turn of the century with an economy the size of Italy... It was in no shape ready to perform any action. Now, it has climbed past all individual EU nations.

In 2016, the conventional understanding was that the west was in a position of strength, because although China had the individually larger economy, EU + US together would still have surpassed them. But the Russia gambit to weaken EU, prove that they're a paper tiger relative to their economy size, was a resounding success. Largely because of this mvoe and nothing else, the conventional understanding has shifted the position of strength to China.
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It isn't about strength. The two are fundamentally hostile to each other. The Roman Catholic Church literally launched crusades against the Eastern Orthodox Church. The bad blood goes back over a millennia.
 
S

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
tankphobia said:
PLA have had a recent string of high profile officials being investigated for corruption, yet procurement projects seems to have ran relatively smoothly and delivered products in a timely manner for the most part, what gives?
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I posted this theory in another thread, will paraphrase again here.
There is no such thing as a corruption-free system. China has corruption, US has corruption. This is a fact.
However, there must be a recognition of the difference between productive and non-productive corruption. If the corruption can speed approvals/cut red tape, then it can be considered productive. If the corruption produces substandard results or simply enriches hangers-on than it is non-productive (ie. oftentimes India).
 
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