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GZDRefugee

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Russia has an edge over China in way more fields than that. Their civilian nuclear technology is more advanced than China's. Both for enrichment, and for nuclear reactors. As is its jet engine industry. Airbreathing hypersonic missiles. Rocket engines. Civilian airliners. Fracking technology. Etc.
Is Russian tech in these fields measurably better, or is this inertia due to reputation and maturity? Chinese contenders may be in testing or LRIP but the specifications do not suggest they are significantly worse than the Russian counterparts. If a gap truly exists, is it significant enough to justify the difference in assertiveness when it comes to foreign policy?
 

Index

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Registered Member
That's kind of why I bemoan the fact that China does not explore ties beyond business relationships. The US has a network of allies/vassals because they are willing to overtly and covertly exert pressure on other nations and factions. In this battle, China is explicitly handicapping itself.
How many vassals does US actually have that can throw in some ~50 000 casualties for US' side, without demanding US spearhead the operation with American lives? And sustains most of its own military production without having to constantly beg for completed hardware?

China is inflicting plenty of pain (significantly more than other way around, I think most euros will readily admit) on US empire, covertly and overtly.

There's still going to be a limit on how much resources China can spend, even if it's more than what US can. Every bit of stuff China saves up from not doing unnecessary actions can be used later to push another proxy, or for direct conflict.

As for business relationships, what kind of business relationship is it to parry America's territorial ambitions in Asia by throwing Europe into the largest war it has seen since ww2? What sort of business relationship is it to coup European colonies in Africa to flip them over to China?

"Business relationship" or "safeguarding international laws and equality between nations" is just a tagline, almost every Chinese dynasty did something alike, claiming that they are not seizing hegemony for themselves but only "restoring the emperor"
 

GZDRefugee

Senior Member
Registered Member
How many vassals does US actually have that can throw in some ~50 000 casualties for US' side, without demanding US spearhead the operation with American lives? And sustains most of its own military production without having to constantly beg for completed hardware?
Ukraine is just the most obvious example currently. The biggest issue is how the US navy controls all shipping routes outside of the 1IC. There is nothing that China can reasonably do to stop shipment of hardware to Australia, for example. In the end, it's American gear being expended to kill America's enemies.
China is inflicting plenty of pain (significantly more than other way around, I think most euros will readily admit) on US empire, covertly and overtly.
What covert and overt actions? As far as I've seen, China isn't even willing to punish Ukraine for the Motor Sichs backstab, nor their involvement in the HK riots. What was the response when high level officials called Chinese of "low intellectual potential"?
There's still going to be a limit on how much resources China can spend, even if it's more than what US can. Every bit of stuff China saves up from not doing unnecessary actions can be used later to push another proxy, or for direct conflict.

As for business relationships, what kind of business relationship is it to parry America's territorial ambitions in Asia by throwing Europe into the largest war it has seen since ww2? What sort of business relationship is it to coup European colonies in Africa to flip them over to China?
The Euros are placing second hand sanctions on Chinese companies and banks. Just recently, China banned all export of consumer drones that can be used for military purposes. Meanwhile, Russia has the balls to send Wagner to support military coups in Mali, Niger, and Burkina Faso to overthrow pro-West governments.
"Business relationship" or "safeguarding international laws and equality between nations" is just a tagline, almost every Chinese dynasty did something alike, claiming that they are not seizing hegemony for themselves but only "restoring the emperor"
We all know the meme of Xi doing nothing and winning. But imagine how much more can be won if China threw its economic and military weight around to fuck with the West more.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
Ukraine is just the most obvious example currently. The biggest issue is how the US navy controls all shipping routes outside of the 1IC. There is nothing that China can reasonably do to stop shipment of hardware to Australia, for example. In the end, it's American gear being expended to kill America's enemies.
Ukraine is under existential threat, they don't have a choice. Like Palestine. I don't characterise Palestine as a Chinese proxy that is willing to lay down 100% of their lives for the cause, because they don't have any alternatives.
What covert and overt actions? As far as I've seen, China isn't even willing to punish Ukraine for the Motor Sichs backstab, nor their involvement in the HK riots. What was the response when high level officials called Chinese of "low intellectual potential"?
Well what more do you want than seeing millions of Ukrainians die, flee, have everything they've built up captured or destroyed, which will effectively end their attempt at nationhood?

I don't see how China can do more without committing crimes against humanity.
The Euros are placing second hand sanctions on Chinese companies and banks. Just recently, China banned all export of consumer drones that can be used for military purposes.
It's a real problem that they need to stem the tide through 3rd parties to Ukraine, which has become an insane problem, resold Chinese hardware is killing a ton of people on both sides. If hardware can only go to Russia, it would severely hamper Ukrainian defenses.
Meanwhile, Russia has the balls to send Wagner to support military coups in Mali, Niger, and Burkina Faso to overthrow pro-West governments.
Who enables Russia to do that, and who coordinates with Russia to move in all their stuff to start extracting resources once the west gets kicked out?
We all know the meme of Xi doing nothing and winning.
Do you really think Xi unironically does nothing? US talks more, but how much have they impacted the living standards or industrial power of China? And vice versa?

US is spamming punches that do little to nothing, like sanctions on products widely available in China, bans on politicians to travel to US, or however many millions to spread misinfo. While nearly every hook China throws out has devastating consequences for living standards in the west, causing dropping wages, recession, whole countries lost to western resource extraction etc.

It's insane to me that anyone would unironically think China did nothing. The world's premier power was simply granted to China by the heavens?
 
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