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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Andrey Rudenko, No. 2 at the Russian Foreign Ministry, told Xi that China's former foreign minister, Qin Gang, along with top officers in the country's military leadership,
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by Western intelligence agencies, according to the report.

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So newsweek is saying two things:
  1. Chinese security work is bad for having so high ranking officials being compromised by west.
  2. Russian security work is equally bad for having their high ranking talk with China being compromised by west.
The mighty west is so omnipotent.

The same Russian intelligence that weren't able to discern Ukraine’s will to resist and fight the invading Russian forces? They're able to penetrate Chinese important leader(s) and on a country who's culture and geography, and language are still foreign to Russia, but couldn't make an accurate assessment of the country Ukraine, which was and is culturally closer, similar language, and geographically closer to Russia. Hmm sure..
You may be just falling into the western trap, blaming Russia for west's lie.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
So newsweek is saying two things:
  1. Chinese security work is bad for having so high ranking officials being compromised by west.
  2. Russian security work is equally bad for having their high ranking talk with China being compromised by west.
The mighty west is so omnipotent.


You may be just falling into the western trap, blaming Russia for west's lie.
I was just sarcastically responding to the allegations and allusions made in the article by the all-knowing and all-seeing omnipotent western/American intelligence.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I get that you are a supporter of China but being ignorant is not a good way of doing it. Deflation is very bad for the economy. Thats economics 101.

Deflation is a sign that people are not spending money,
cause either they don't have jobs, or are trying to pay off debt, or too afraid of losing jobs in the future and thus saving money. So, when there is not enough customers, sellers reduce price. That's a very bad sign. Deflation only happens when there is a recession. Is China in recession? It kind of is when several sectors are declining like the huge property sector and export sector.
You really think this is the only reason of deflation? When there are more products than demand, there is a deflation. It goes two ways:
  1. Production remains unchanged, consumer's demand reduces, price goes down. This is what you expected. This is usually bad.
  2. Production increased, consumer demand stay unchanged, price goes down. This is what you ignored.
Deflation is just reflection of the balance of supply and consumption, itself isn't good or bad.

Honestly, from reading many posts from you, I think you have a tendency of cherry-picking the convinient "truth" to fit your wish.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Brigadier
Registered Member
I get that you are a supporter of China but being ignorant is not a good way of doing it. Deflation is very bad for the economy. Thats economics 101.
No, that's actually Western dogma 101.

Here in reality, what's happening is Chinese producers are becoming more efficient and productive. Because China has functioning markets and these producers are in competition (unlike in the West where they have state-sanctioned price fixing cartels), they reduce prices to gain market share and improve their positions. In addition to that, input prices are falling.

That's economics 101, something Westerners have either forgotten from living in dysfunctional societies for too long or never even knew.
 

tokenanalyst

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
You assume that processes will forever remain exactly as efficient as some baseline year with no possible changes in price other than via demand from existing customers.

You assume no business will ever lower prices to try to capture more market share because their new efficiencies permit lower prices at equal or greater margins than their old processes.

China has relatively low household debt:

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Deflation also has little to do with the physical consumption of products. China's retail market is bigger than ever and still growing fast:

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Inflation raises inequality by targeting the poor more than the rich since consumption is a greater %income for poor than rich.

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Deflation benefits the poor more than the rich.
You really think this is the only reason of deflation? When there are more products than demand, there is a deflation. It goes two ways:
  1. Production remains unchanged, consumer's demand reduces, price goes down. This is what you expected. This is usually bad.
  2. Production increased, consumer demand stay unchanged, price goes down. This is what you ignored.
Deflation is just reflection of the balance of supply and consumption, itself isn't good or bad.

Honestly, from reading many posts from you, I think you have a tendency of cherry-picking the convinient "truth" to fit your wish.


Retail sales have been on the rise in China since the mid 2022.

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Looks like most china inflation has been dragged by low food prices -4.2% and I don't think that people in China are on a mass diet, I have seeing than in online platforms like Alibaba and MadeInChina the prices of machinery, components, electronics and raw materials has maintained or going up but not down so importers are still waiting for the super duper low prices the MSM are talking.

I think there is a source of inflation in China that people are ignoring and that is Russia, when Europeans imposed sanctions to Russia and started to "decouple" because the Ukrainian war, China has become their economic partner of last resort, without China the Russian economy would have been in huge trouble. The export of grains to China from Russia almost double in 2023 and if we keep in mind that import of grain from the United States has not decreased, Chinese pig farmers are feeding their pigs with super cheap food and that I think is dragging China food prices.

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siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
China posted the steepest deflation in 3 years. When Consumer Prices Fall, the capitalists hate it. It goes against their teachings, so it had to be a negative thing for China.
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"Worsening deflation?" Hmm, I don't care what those economists think. I much prefer falling prices than rising prices. It means I can maintain a higher living standard with less money.


Bla bla bla. Yeah I know China's economy is not in its best shape ever. But have you looked at how things are going in the Western cities? Rising food prices, homes getting more expensive, rising medical costs, rising fuel prices, rising electricity bills, etc. Ask the average Londoner if he would like some of that dreadful deflation.



Who called for Beijing to step up stimulus? Is it those idiot economists who write magazines bashing China's economy? Beijing not giving any major bailouts to developers should have won them an award in how to manage an economy responsibly. The Chinese government have already said that "houses are for living, not for speculation. Anyone who engages in the speculation business and got burned, that's your problem.

I don't know how its like in China. But in Malaysia, anyone who have been in the construction business will know that many property developers are some of the worse scums in the business. They use the cheapest construction materials engineeringly possible. Many luxury condos look good on the outside, but are shoddy inside. Maintaining them is a nightmare. They (along with their major contractor buddies) bully the lower-tiered subcontractors to squeeze them as much as possible, pay them as little as possible, or sometimes not even paying them at all. They have their army of lawyers to play around and tire out those small contractors who wanna sue them for payment. Then they use the power speculation to sell their properties at sky-high prices. They recruit lawyers and bankers to make it easier for people to buy, but harder to sue them for any liabilities. Since many property developers in Malaysia are ethnic Chinese, I suspect that some of their culture is shared with their Chinese counterparts. So I don't have much sympathy for large property developers who irresponsibly play with property speculation. May they be punished for their greed and irresponsibility. The Chinese government did the right thing. They let the greedy capitalists suffer for their folly, and work to ensure that the property market serves the common people first.

Property prices going down is a positive thing for humanity. Housing is a basic human right. It cannot be denied to more and more people, because developers and speculators wanna inflate their prices to the moon. If the economy suffers because the big developers and speculators need to be humbled, then so be it. Its an overall positive thing in the long term.


I don't really agree with the Chinese government for stopping the publishing of youth unemployment data when the numbers got ugly. It makes it look like they were trying to hide uncomfortable data. Its easy ammunition for China bashers. Nevertheless I think the Chinese government have their own good reasons for doing so, but they have not given a clear explanation why.

My guess is that the economy of China is in a period of rapid adjustments due to the trade wars, Covid, and the tech war. So, many youths who graduate are finding a mismatch between their qualifications and the evolving demands of the Chinese job market. Maybe they want more programmers or physicists now, than accountants or business admins. The Chinese job market is also incredibly competitive, so that compounds the problem. Its a complicated issue, but I'm confident that the Chinese government is definitely on top of it right now.

The Western governments', are so much worse. They casually ignore their own economic issues, while constantly diverting attention to troubles in China. The economic problems in the West are magnitudes worse than whatever is happening in China. Just look at the idiocy of the fiscal policies in the US and Europe.


More Chinese can afford bigger meals and dining out. Less people died from Covid = Bad
More people in the West are finding it harder to afford their groceries. More people died from Covid = Good

Good FT. Continue to live in your capitalist fantasy.

They need China to pull off a 2008 style stimulus to avoid economic crisis in the coming year. The less China is willing to compromise, the greater the doom and gloom reporting.
 
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