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Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
Australia unironically has more leverage on China than US though. China could slap around the US economy back to recession because they're not that closely integrated. There's not much China can lose from US.

In contrast, Australia is one of the resource rich countries that also sell all of it to China in yuan. Meaning they partially subsidize Chinese living standards, alongside Russia, Middle East etc. China has a lot more to lose.
The only major resource that China realistically depends on from Australia is iron ore and they’re already alleviating that vulnerability with that mine in Guinea. Other than that, Australia is a primary producer and mining nation that sends its best talent and brains to Europe or America, it’s far more realistic to see Australia as the colonial outpost slash territory it really is. There is no Australian nation per se when Australian prime ministers accept political office in the UK (tony abbott) and government ministers are outed as spies for America and suffer no punishment.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Suspect has been arrested.
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I do not agree with perpetrating hate crimes against Americans, especially in China. I would like to know the deeper detail as to who the victims are and what were the motives for the attack before making any conclusions. But on the surface, it does look like a hate crime, which China will take much more seriously than the US with its own anti-Asian hate crimes.

Nevertheless, I find it ironic that the US govt, Western media, and the various other West-leaning "Asian media" like Nikkei, SCMP, and CNA reacted with such "horror" at the news that Americans in China were stabbed. But when Chinese people were assaulted, lynched, bombed, and discriminated against, they don't actually care at all. Instead, they blame the victim and their nation. American Chinese killed on the streets of San Francisco, its the CCP's fault for Covid. Chinese people getting assaulted by HK black mobs, its the CCP's fault for cracking down on HK. Chinese people getting blown up by terrorists in Pakistan, its the evil CCP's BRI fault. These people and journalists are racists, but they are so blinded by white superiority, that they can't see their own contradictions.
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pmc

Major
Registered Member
Exactly. Far right is sympathetic to Russia because they're white, that's it. When it comes down to China they are even more rabidly anti-Chinese (and anti-non-white in general) than libs. It is not some Russian "soft power" or genius grand strategy that swayed them and could be replicated, it is just plain tribalism and racism.
nope. Think again. what has wealthy Arabs, Hindus and Jews in common?
Russia is using Soft Power in this Ukraine conflict. there is alot of stuff about it that only experience observer of Gulf Arabs can understand it. Russia has offered Far Eastern and Arctic mortgages to shift population. that is carrot but the stick is that prolong ukraine conflict in border regions.
Airbus A380 not many airlines fly and far less in world has that technical ability to fix structure damage but Emirates manage to do it in Moscow. I am sure European engineer got command from an Arab.
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Emirates Manages to Get Badly Damaged Airbus A380 Out of Moscow to Skirt Western Sanctions On Russia​


Its extremely rare that all three wealthy Gulf emirates got interested in small Christian country.
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Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Luxury goods is a huge potential market for China. The richer Chinese get, the more they will buy European luxury goods. So, heavy tariffs on these can help develop these inside China or even develop its competitors in Japan and Korea, which in turn will out compete them in Europe. Seems like a good way to attack Europe.

But considering china's extremely weak minded nature when it comes to fighting a trade war (they did bend the knee and did a deal with trump, also did not retaliate enough against US), I expect them to do a little bit and then give up. China also gave up on its trade war on Australia, which is still heavily anti-China and still member of quad. It still bans Huawei. Nothing Australia has done that repealed their anti-China moves but China repealed their bans and tariffs.
China has a major weakness in that it runs a trade surplus vs the West. Your ammo is limited in a trade war when you’re the one making the profits and the opponent doesn’t care enough about their own people’s purchasing power to avoid raising tariffs. Even with a ban on Chinese EV, China would still sell more to Europe than it buys, so retaliating hurts China more than it helps. This is a similar issue vs the US.

Ultimately the problem comes down to demographics and the fact that China has no way to shore up long term domestic demand due to a falling population. In a world where there is no trade, China’s industries would struggle because of a demand crunch. Hence China’s current push for more globalization and trade despite the West being done with it.

You can’t manufacture your way out of a demand crunch. Robots don’t consume.
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
China has a major weakness in that it runs a trade surplus vs the West. Your ammo is limited in a trade war when you’re the one making the profits and the opponent doesn’t care enough about their own people’s purchasing power to avoid raising tariffs. Even with a ban on Chinese EV, China would still sell more to Europe than it buys, so retaliating hurts China more than it helps. This is a similar issue vs the US.

Ultimately the problem comes down to demographics and the fact that China has no way to shore up long term domestic demand due to a falling population. In a world where there is no trade, China’s industries would struggle because of a demand crunch. Hence China’s current push for more globalization and trade despite the West being done with it.

You can’t manufacture your way out of a demand crunch. Robots don’t consume.
??
You're reasoning doesn't make sense.

It's not demographics but disposable income. India has large demographics but they're consumption is super low. Even with lower consumption, they still import most of their products from.... China. Lol

China produces more than it can consume because of their manufacturing efficiency and scale, not because demographics. Chinas population is similar to the entire west combined.

China wants globalization because they can likely outproduce any other country and this gain market share and profit.

Are you saying that the west is fine without globalization because they don't need to globalize and sell to other countries? Are you saying that the west can just trade within their own countries and that's enough to expand?

If that's the case then why are all those western companies still trying to expand into China or ASEAN or india etc?
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
China has a major weakness in that it runs a trade surplus vs the West. Your ammo is limited in a trade war when you’re the one making the profits and the opponent doesn’t care enough about their own people’s purchasing power to avoid raising tariffs. Even with a ban on Chinese EV, China would still sell more to Europe than it buys, so retaliating hurts China more than it helps. This is a similar issue vs the US.

Ultimately the problem comes down to demographics and the fact that China has no way to shore up long term domestic demand due to a falling population. In a world where there is no trade, China’s industries would struggle because of a demand crunch. Hence China’s current push for more globalization and trade despite the West being done with it.

You can’t manufacture your way out of a demand crunch. Robots don’t consume.
Demand can be manufactured. Nothing a war cant solve. If production is overflowing in civil sector, it can be diverted to military.

Back then when there is no global market. When everyone refuse to trade, the one with more military might gets most markets.

If one bloc close their market to another, it incentavise other bloc to pressure its allies also close theirs. The one with bigger bloc wins, and the one with strongest military is the one with bigger bloc.

In other words, if Japan join western bloc, then they can expect China with higher military investment to pressure them to drop it. And China has a lot of car industry to convert to drones, ship industry to warships. I think this shift is more beneficial in long run. It makes China incentavised to secure its market rather than relies on people's mood swing.
 

getready

Senior Member
The only major resource that China realistically depends on from Australia is iron ore and they’re already alleviating that vulnerability with that mine in Guinea. Other than that, Australia is a primary producer and mining nation that sends its best talent and brains to Europe or America, it’s far more realistic to see Australia as the colonial outpost slash territory it really is. There is no Australian nation per se when Australian prime ministers accept political office in the UK (tony abbott) and government ministers are outed as spies for America and suffer no punishment.
There are several levers china could activate like they did during the trade dispute with Aus under scomo. Agriculture and food industry is one. when scomo followed trump in attacking China during height of covid outbreak, ties were soured badly. Imports of Aus wine, lobsters and other produce were cut or outright banned. Ironically before this period there was hope in Aus that they could export their food and animal products to the huge Chinese market. many have seen the mining boom slowly over and hope to open other markets. Of course we know now how this is going. unless unexpected developments occur I feel, Aus will also try to decouple to follow US agenda.

Another hugely profitable source is the Chinese international students. There is already talks of Aus wanting to limit their numbers from anti Chinese groups. Another would be property. Chinese are already the scapegoat for increasing property prices. Although during Covid border closure this was largely disproven, it will be a convenient reason again. I think China has some moves left in their sleeves to unleash if it really becomes an issue.
 

canonicalsadhu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Exactly. Far right is sympathetic to Russia because they're white, that's it. When it comes down to China they are even more rabidly anti-Chinese (and anti-non-white in general) than libs. It is not some Russian "soft power" or genius grand strategy that swayed them and could be replicated, it is just plain tribalism and racism.
It's not just about being white. The populist right is sympathetic to Russia because they're also majority Christian and tend to be conservative pro-fossil fuels / anti-"green agenda", pro family values / anti-"woke", pro-autarky / anti-"globalist", etc. China OTOH doesn't engage in these cultural wars.
 
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