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FriedButter

FriedButter

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No limit’ to sharing tech with China – Putin​

Even military secrets are not off the table, the Russian president has suggested

Russia’s current relationship with China allows for full-spectrum cooperation in the tech sector, including with regards to its military applications, President Vladimir Putin told a Chinese entrepreneur on Thursday during a panel discussion at VTB Bank’s ‘Russia Calling!’ forum.

The remark was part of Putin’s answer to a question about US sanctions policy, which includes a ban on export of certain technologies to some nations, which, the Chinese businessman suggested, was forcing them to “reinvent the bicycle”. The Russian leader said such restrictions were not viable in the long run even before the world became profoundly interconnected.

“No matter how much people tried to guard the secret of black powder, it became the province of all mankind, for good or for worse,” Putin mused.

The same was true during the Cold War, when the US and its allies were heavily regulating trade with the Eastern bloc through the Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls (CoCom), Putin said. Those efforts halted the development of the USSR, but the country managed achieve its key goals nevertheless, he noted.

Washington’s current policies are meant to preserve its dominant status, the Russian president claimed, but “if we act across the board, supporting and helping each other, no restrictions by whoever tries to keep its advantage can stop us.”

As for China specifically, Russia is ready to cooperate in every area, Putin assured.

“We have no limits. This includes the military sphere,” he said. “When it comes to security, we are moving away from the traditional ‘buy-sell’ kind of relationship. We think about the future, about technologies.”

The US considers both Russia and China strategic rivals. Washington has banned the export of advanced semiconductors produced using American technology to China as part of its Asia strategy, which Beijing perceives as an attempt to contain the nation.
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Washington’s current policies are meant to preserve its dominant status, the Russian president claimed, but “if we act across the board, supporting and helping each other, no restrictions by whoever tries to keep its advantage can stop us.”
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“We have no limits. This includes the military sphere,” he said. “When it comes to security, we are moving away from the traditional ‘buy-sell’ kind of relationship. We think about the future, about technologies.”
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Putin putting out quite a statement.
 
P

pmc

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gelgoog said:
My guess is that after the conflict in Yemen their F-15 force is kind of run down. So accidents due to mechanical fault aren't unlikely.
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F-15 fleet is too large and they have EF/Tornado also. Yemen area wise not big conflict.
more effective work was done by UAE airforce. they divided Yemen and got that Socotra island.

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Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

Captain
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gelgoog said:
If China and Russia wanted to support Venezuela, the best thing they could do is send in part of their Navy to Venezuela to guard it against US military intervention. For example China could send in surface ships and Russia could send in nuclear submarines. But I doubt this would work in the long run. That place is just too close to the US, so they have the military superiority there. And Venezuela isn't the stablest of places to begin with. Regardless of what they think of the US extracting oil from the offshore shelf in Guyana, it's a bad idea for Venezuela to act militarily.

Still, Russia probably doesn't care much at this point about Western sanctions, but I kind of doubt China would send in their Navy.
The Chinese Navy is basically geared up for a conflict in the Pacific, not in the other side of the world.

At this point, the US Navy is heavily committed in the Middle East, and they have two carriers in the Pacific, so I kind of doubt the US could respond quickly to an intervention by Venezuela. But you can bet it would happen eventually.
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If there really is gonna be a conflict between Venezuela and Guyana/US. And if there is gonna be any backing of Venezuela. I can see the Russians giving the more traditional military backing. In the form of supplying weapons, ammunition, and spare parts. China would most probably be in the background, providing financial, and non-military aid. Nevertheless the logistics is the biggest issue.

Directly shipping or flying in aid to Venezuela is the more obvious option. But it could be denied if the US decides to enforce a naval and air blockade on Venezuela. Maybe they might wanna consider smuggling through the land borders of neighbouring countries. But Colombia and Brazil might not wanna get dragged into this conflict. So either way, Russia's and China's options to aid Venezuela is gonna be quite limited. I do hope that Venezuela have got this thought out, and is already prepared for the challenges ahead.
 
Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

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FriedButter said:
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Putin putting out quite a statement.
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Excellent. I think the big statement here by Putin is that Russia is moving away from the buy-sell military relationship with China to co-development. It's a type of acknowledgement, that China has advanced military technology that Russia desires. For obvious reasons, Russia doesn't want to buy Chinese weapons directly. So the best way forward is to co-develop stuff with China.

So for example, China and Russia might wanna co-develop a new heavy HALE drone. China has the expertise, while Russia would want the ToT, and manufacturing know-how. It would be nice if the cooperation could also extend to major naval vessels and nuclear submarines. Russia needs newer capital ships, and China could use an additional boost in nuclear submarine tech. Since there is that AUKUS deal by the other side already, such a deal not that unthinkable.

P.S.: In my opinion they should insert a special clause in any co-development deals between China and Russia. No sales or ToT allowed to any 3rd countries that have problems with China or Russia. No matter how friendly they are to either of them. So no sales or ToT allowed to India, Vietnam, PH, Turkey, Ukraine, or any other NATO nations or partners. Ideally, these co-developed technologies should only stay between Russia and China only.
 
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Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

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Overbom said:
Why? What would Russia offer in this "co"-development of a HALE drone?
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Its just an example. Russia needs HALE drones technology, and could trade with China something else for that. Like nuclear sub technology, marine nuclear propulsion designs, or even nuclear jet propulsion technology that Russia declared it had developed. Alternatively, Russia could also share other technologies and knowledge that was developed from the Ukraine War. Such as SIGINT collected from NATO equipment and activities. Methods to jam GPS signals that have been tried and tested in Ukraine. Methods to intercept NATO communications. Passing on knowledge of NATO equipment, land tactics, and doctrines. We cannot assume that China has nothing to learn from Russia. That Ukraine war is a treasure trove of knowledge about fighting NATO.
 
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O

Overbom

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The China Juggernaut is coming for EU's cake now.

Trade War - EU version is loading.
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China and the EU risk a trade war​

Massive Chinese overcapacity in electric cars is a giant political risk for Europe​

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When considering the European perspective, it helps to think about eu goals as sides of a triangle. On one side is the bloc’s determination to embrace green, low-carbon technologies. On another is its desire to end damaging dependencies on Chinese products and inputs. And on the third side is its goal of preserving industrial jobs. As of now, Europe cannot have all three sides of its triangle
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The eu could prioritise the first goal, focusing on the environment by importing Chinese-made electric vehicles and other clean tech. But that would ignore fears about lost businesses and jobs. European officials worry that millions of subsidised Chinese cars could be dumped on its markets each year, especially as tariffs and other rules close American markets to batteries from China. Of course, guarding European jobs and businesses by blocking Chinese vehicles would raise the opposite problem: Europe would be less green than it wants to be. Such protectionism would also harm drivers.
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A bigger challenge pertains to the second side of the triangle. China is determined to keep the eu reliant on its supply chains. Indeed, in 2020 Mr Xi called such dependencies a “powerful counter-measure” for controlling foreigners. Since then China has imposed export controls on critical minerals, including a form of man-made graphite that European firms need to make advanced batteries. The eu could work to avoid dependencies on Chinese technologies while trying to keep factories humming at home. But without Chinese minerals, for instance, those same factories cannot produce electric cars or batteries at scale, forcing Europe to forgo or delay its low-carbon revolution. For years to come, then, Europe must choose between the planet, independence from China and shielding industry at home.
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Sounds like a good bet:
China, for its part, continues to invest heavily in manufacturing. Chinese officials appear to believe that their country’s market power and control of clean technologies will force Europe to back down. They hope that Ms von der Leyen’s commission lacks support from key eu governments. Perhaps they are right. If they are wrong, this could end with a trade war.
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Also, funny how they didn't mention potential Chinese retaliation against German/EU car companies
 
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