It's probably has to do with SEA mentality they're Elitist and likes to be associated with the winner, When China becomes top dog they will become the biggest advocates of China even surpassing Chinese nationalists themselves
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Actually, a bit deeper inspection of some of the "nonsensical" decisions such as the soldier shooting the lighter core in frustration, the drama about leaving the protagonist's uncle, and disabling MOSS computer shows they were deliberate inclusions to make powerful statements on how modern decision making relies on technology, AI and hard science / cold logic but those things should not and cannot take precedence over human feeling, family bonds, and the fundamental parts of Chinese society. On the same vein, even though it sounds stupid and futile, Chinese people would rather work to save the entire Mother Earth (Moving the Mountain) than escape their homeland on spaceship Noah's Arks to colonize foreign lands (a more Western, Christian theme). Movie feels like a commentary on current evolution and conflicts facing Chinese society today, and where we need to guide technology in the future. It as a whole feels like a microcosm of Chinese sci-fi.
I agree with you, I feel the themes displayed are mature and complex, but suffer from lack of skill in execution. They have too many good ideas and have to shove it into a single 3 hour movie. As a result, events and decisions are a little jarring and out-of-the-blue due to lack of character or narrative build up. Movie includes too many "need to go here to do this to save the world" to keep the tension high.
But overall I think right now it's exactly what Chinese audience wants and needs from the nation's biggest sci-fi movie. We can always refine the execution later on, what is important is we represent the ideas right.
This is possibly the worst place to do so but I have to put this in writing for later:
You mean the fact that it was written by a jingoistic pseudointellectual masturbator Liu Cixin?
When I look back at the previous decade in SFF I have to say that The Three Body Problem was the single dumbest and most pseudointellectual piece of literature I've read and it only went worse in the latter novels. I will never touch anything else he writes without hazmat suit on. And in that sense I find it fitting that it got a Hugo right between between the fetishistic asshat Scalzi and rabid drivel-spewing demented wokester Jemisin. Hazmat suits apply as well.
While TBP was tremendously engaging on a cultural level I found it positively insulting as a sci-fi enthusiast. It was the equivalent of writing an entire novel about furry porn while exessively quoting genderqueer theory. And thats mostly because his "sci-fi" is in reality a convoluted pseudointellectual metaphor for his political drivel and blatant personal issues. It is "sci-fi" not sci-fi.
There are two types of authors:
These people were the first type of author. Explorers.
Liu Cixin is the second type, as are all contemporary "woke" SFF writers in the west. The difference is that their fetishistic obsession lies elsewhere. While western wokesters masturbate to furry porn in space Liu Cixin masturbates to Chinese spaceships and people confuse that for sci-fi.
Nope. The entirety of Remembrance trilogy was Liu proclaiming "look how smart and wise I am" when in reality he's an obnoxious retard. My entire experience of reading the novels was "wait.. he didn't mean it seriously... oh... he can't be this f*** dumb". But he did and he was. It was frustrating. The only thing good about it was that it was Chinese i.e. original to me as a western reader.
Want good sci-fi? Pick someone intelligent to write it. With 1+ billion people it shouldn't be too hard.
This was a rant. Now here's a philosophical remark I wanted to save for later.
And never will be.
See the "science fiction" that you refer to is something very specific in terms of cultural evolution. It's a product of a very peculiar type of culture that I would call culture of paradigm shift. The paradigm shifts are natural occurrences and cause transformations of the entire society and the way it perceives reality around itself. They can be cultural, political and technological. You may recognize that from the period of early internet however... that paradigm shift was too quick to establish a lasting culture that is it came and went and we see the period of transition as a fuzzy period of what came before and after the change. We see the periods of cultural stability in clear terms but the period of change as a chaotic and confusing time.
In evolutionary theory it's called punctuated equilibrium and it's a natural dynamic that underpins all of life and broader evolutionary change.
Science fiction is a product of people for whom that paradigm shift wasn't a period in their lives but rather constituted the entirety of their understanding of the world. And as far as science fiction goes that was only possible during the industrial revolution.
Now here's the thing. Only "the west" has undergone the industrial revolution. Other cultures like China have only undergone industrial revolution i.e. industrialization. China hasn't invented the scientific method and the scientific-industrial paradigm and the industry and the socio-political movements associated with it and most importantly those changes haven't affected the entirety of society.
That process is happening now after all of it has been already invented. The consequence of that is that the way that the average Chinese person perceives the change that is occurring right now is more efficiently expressed in the metahporical language of mythology or "fantasy".
Art is two things at the same time: a meta-language and a method of coping for cultures experiencing trauma. Art conveys knowledge that emerges sub-consciously from a society and there are two types of knowledge:
For China and Russia/Soviet Union industrialization was like adoption of new religion which is also why they both experienced periods of violent upheaval and societal disaster: Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, Stalinist Collectivization etc. Those are usually associated with religious revolutions i.e. impositions of evolved knowledge without adaptation. In Europe/West we had the adaptation so all the upheavals and societal disasters were spread along the period of adaptation. In fact France had the revolution precisely because in political terms it was the most backward society of all major cultures.
Western sci-fi authors were born in the period of change that had human speed. Their parents lived in periods of such change as often did their grandparents. Their children and grandchildren would also live in it (in their view of reality) so they came up with ideas that formed science fiction. Science fiction begins in 19th century and ends in 20th century. The entire preceding century was the setup. What came before and after was mythology because mythology is the default mode of culture.
So let's generalize: Science fiction is a type of fantasy with science as religion and technology as magic.
Science fiction is uniquely western because only western societies had to cope culturally with industrial and scientific revolutions. Everyone else adopted ready solutions and that usually leads to a culture that looks more like mythological tale of magic rather than sci-fi.
And what's Japanese cultural creations? Kaiju and Gundams. Myths. Because Japan adopted rather than transformed.
Evangelion is positively hilarious. It's like suburban soccermoms starting yoga and meditation. And not in a sexy way.
It's like the difference between quirky adventure tales of colonial Britain and the everyday frontier tales of 18th and 19th century America. Why was "the western" so successful in America but failed elsewhere? Because you have to understand the western to do it well. You may as well try making kung fu movies in the west. None works.
It's like the difference between contemporary western adoption of ancient Chinese philosophical practices (Dao, Tai Chi, Feng Shui) and how those same practices are perceived in China. The "magic" was "science" of the ancient past. The stories that explored it were the "science fiction" of that era.
I'm very interested in the processes of cultural change (being a product of such moment in time) so I easily see the parallels between things like the emergence of Confucianism and Daoism and European "Enligthenment". Different times, different settings and different needs but the same process. This is why chicks doing yoga or tai chi to look sexy are so stupid to me. I get the point of them much as Chinese creators don't get the point of sci-fi.
China will never have sci-fi. It's literally trying to speak western while talking Chinese. It's like westerners using Chinese lettes for tatoos or ornament. To people in China it's fun. To people who grew up with sci-fi it's stupid. Because it's the difference between needing to know the curse and avoiding it.
You mean the fact that it was written by a jingoistic pseudointellectual masturbator Liu Cixin?
When I look back at the previous decade in SFF I have to say that The Three Body Problem was the single dumbest and most pseudointellectual piece of literature I've read and it only went worse in the latter novels. I will never touch anything else he writes without hazmat suit on. And in that sense I find it fitting that it got a Hugo right between between the fetishistic asshat Scalzi and rabid drivel-spewing demented wokester Jemisin. Hazmat suits apply as well.
While TBP was tremendously engaging on a cultural level I found it positively insulting as a sci-fi enthusiast. It was the equivalent of writing an entire novel about furry porn while exessively quoting genderqueer theory. And thats mostly because his "sci-fi" is in reality a convoluted pseudointellectual metaphor for his political drivel and blatant personal issues. It is "sci-fi" not sci-fi.
There are two types of authors:
- those who seek understanding and use story as a laboratory - primarily obsessive
- those who claim understanding and use story as a sermon - primarily narcissistic
These people were the first type of author. Explorers.
Liu Cixin is the second type, as are all contemporary "woke" SFF writers in the west. The difference is that their fetishistic obsession lies elsewhere. While western wokesters masturbate to furry porn in space Liu Cixin masturbates to Chinese spaceships and people confuse that for sci-fi.
Nope. The entirety of Remembrance trilogy was Liu proclaiming "look how smart and wise I am" when in reality he's an obnoxious retard. My entire experience of reading the novels was "wait.. he didn't mean it seriously... oh... he can't be this f*** dumb". But he did and he was. It was frustrating. The only thing good about it was that it was Chinese i.e. original to me as a western reader.
Want good sci-fi? Pick someone intelligent to write it. With 1+ billion people it shouldn't be too hard.
This was a rant. Now here's a philosophical remark I wanted to save for later.
And never will be.
See the "science fiction" that you refer to is something very specific in terms of cultural evolution. It's a product of a very peculiar type of culture that I would call culture of paradigm shift. The paradigm shifts are natural occurrences and cause transformations of the entire society and the way it perceives reality around itself. They can be cultural, political and technological. You may recognize that from the period of early internet however... that paradigm shift was too quick to establish a lasting culture that is it came and went and we see the period of transition as a fuzzy period of what came before and after the change. We see the periods of cultural stability in clear terms but the period of change as a chaotic and confusing time.
In evolutionary theory it's called punctuated equilibrium and it's a natural dynamic that underpins all of life and broader evolutionary change.
Science fiction is a product of people for whom that paradigm shift wasn't a period in their lives but rather constituted the entirety of their understanding of the world. And as far as science fiction goes that was only possible during the industrial revolution.
Now here's the thing. Only "the west" has undergone the industrial revolution. Other cultures like China have only undergone industrial revolution i.e. industrialization. China hasn't invented the scientific method and the scientific-industrial paradigm and the industry and the socio-political movements associated with it and most importantly those changes haven't affected the entirety of society.
That process is happening now after all of it has been already invented. The consequence of that is that the way that the average Chinese person perceives the change that is occurring right now is more efficiently expressed in the metahporical language of mythology or "fantasy".
Art is two things at the same time: a meta-language and a method of coping for cultures experiencing trauma. Art conveys knowledge that emerges sub-consciously from a society and there are two types of knowledge:
- transformative knowledge i.e. the knowledge of the change - causes and outcomes, successess and failures and mental states associated with them
- evolved or adopted knowledge i.e. the knowledge of successful solution without the mental state that brought it about.
For China and Russia/Soviet Union industrialization was like adoption of new religion which is also why they both experienced periods of violent upheaval and societal disaster: Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, Stalinist Collectivization etc. Those are usually associated with religious revolutions i.e. impositions of evolved knowledge without adaptation. In Europe/West we had the adaptation so all the upheavals and societal disasters were spread along the period of adaptation. In fact France had the revolution precisely because in political terms it was the most backward society of all major cultures.
Western sci-fi authors were born in the period of change that had human speed. Their parents lived in periods of such change as often did their grandparents. Their children and grandchildren would also live in it (in their view of reality) so they came up with ideas that formed science fiction. Science fiction begins in 19th century and ends in 20th century. The entire preceding century was the setup. What came before and after was mythology because mythology is the default mode of culture.
So let's generalize: Science fiction is a type of fantasy with science as religion and technology as magic.
Science fiction is uniquely western because only western societies had to cope culturally with industrial and scientific revolutions. Everyone else adopted ready solutions and that usually leads to a culture that looks more like mythological tale of magic rather than sci-fi.
- West did "how the hell do I make a magic sword so it doesn't become cursed somehow".
- China does "here's a magic sword, but beware of this curse, off you go on your quest".
And what's Japanese cultural creations? Kaiju and Gundams. Myths. Because Japan adopted rather than transformed.
Evangelion is positively hilarious. It's like suburban soccermoms starting yoga and meditation. And not in a sexy way.
It's like the difference between quirky adventure tales of colonial Britain and the everyday frontier tales of 18th and 19th century America. Why was "the western" so successful in America but failed elsewhere? Because you have to understand the western to do it well. You may as well try making kung fu movies in the west. None works.
It's like the difference between contemporary western adoption of ancient Chinese philosophical practices (Dao, Tai Chi, Feng Shui) and how those same practices are perceived in China. The "magic" was "science" of the ancient past. The stories that explored it were the "science fiction" of that era.
I'm very interested in the processes of cultural change (being a product of such moment in time) so I easily see the parallels between things like the emergence of Confucianism and Daoism and European "Enligthenment". Different times, different settings and different needs but the same process. This is why chicks doing yoga or tai chi to look sexy are so stupid to me. I get the point of them much as Chinese creators don't get the point of sci-fi.
China will never have sci-fi. It's literally trying to speak western while talking Chinese. It's like westerners using Chinese lettes for tatoos or ornament. To people in China it's fun. To people who grew up with sci-fi it's stupid. Because it's the difference between needing to know the curse and avoiding it.
*China will never have the kind of sci-fi that I think can be called sci-fi. Is what your whole post boils down to, which is fine, you can have that opinion.
Generally, for me, labels like 'sci-fi, fantasy, romance' etc. are just that, very broad labels that will tell one a bit about what the content of the book/movie/series etc. will have. To actually get a better idea of the content of w/e book/movie etc. one basically have to get into/research the author as well as looking into the particular work itself.
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In4ser
Junior Member
Not only that but US wealth and resources are depleting. He may soon find little reason to support the US once he is firmly in power as they add little opportunities but a threat to his younger power base.
I was talking about the trade war not G2. Trump offered China a deal during the trade war negotiations that China ended its pursue of high tech in exchange for Trump ended the trade war and additional sanctions.
As for G2, it never was a serious proposal to begin with. It's more of a trap.
I much prefer Liu's stuff over your stream of consciousness incoherent collection of words. Your ranting is just incomprehensible and boring. Scalzi and Jemisin are great companies to keep.
This involves a very complex problem. Someone on Weibo provided an interesting and simple summary, but I forgot the specific content and could only rely on memory to retell it.
The gap between China and the United States in the 1980s was much larger than it is now. It is inevitable for many people to lose confidence in their country.
However, it is disappointing that the majority of elite intellectuals have become "traitors".They should have been the ones who should not have lost confidence the most, and shouldered the responsibility of guiding the entire country and nation forward. But the self-interest and worship of the strong of these elite elements have made them a group that runs counter to mainstream interests.
This group is in control of the cultural and media fields, which is the worst thing.
Chinese elites see the supposed "freedoms" of the West and become green with envy that they are beholden to a higher power in the form of the CPC. Many Chinese elites (and liberals) I strongly suspect simply see whites as genetically superior and therefore any achievements that Chinese people make are tinged with an air of inferiority.