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supercat

Colonel
US policymakers just don't get it: national sovereignty and territorial integrity are priceless for China. These bills won't matter the least when push comes to shove.

We already know this: the real reason the US is treating China as an adversary is not because of human rights, but because America is losing the economic competition.

After the fiascos in Hong Kong and Xinjiang, now the US circles back to the "Tibet issue".

Today's fine example of Western values:
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
"Blame China fire the first shot" and by that point, much of the offensive assets already on standby and safeties are off, all it takes in one order come through the command hierarchy.



That Japanese American admiral almost successfully started a war back in 2010s had it not for one captain question the legitimacy of the order and called up The Pentagon instead, do you think we can be that lucky every time?

I would prefer if China can fight the US without bloodshed for as long as possible, and more so if China can win the war without bloodshed.

Besides, what China truly needs is more time. Her military and technological mastery still haven't completely on par with the US-led West.


Who cares about the constitution if you got a rogue one in power? The constitution can still be amended if the rogue leader has broad popular support for amending the constitution.

Even if the government in Taipei does not have such intention, once Washington DC decides it's time, they would force Taipei to either agree or be purged with more pro-US elements in their administration. Then the US military would be flooding into Taiwan quickly.
I just have to ask you this question flat out: What makes you think that in the event of the very unfortunate war between America and China, instigated by American led provocation that it'll come out on top against a much more determined adversary, a technologically advanced, well motivated, and smart military that's China?

Do I believe that America and the keyboard warriors will all of a sudden line up and sign up with their military when they see one or two of their precious air craft carriers are split in half, blown up, sink by Chinese hypersonic missiles along with thousands of dead American sailors, pilots, and marines?

It's been a long time since America has fought a peer that's almost equal to her in every way. And since all this chicken little talk about China not ready due to X, Y, Z, well tough, there's never a perfect situation for China to go to war and waste not only the precious lives of her people but the damage a war will inflict upon Taiwan, China. I mean if America is supposedly prepared to essentially destroy the U.N. and much of the International laws that underpin international relations then why the f.. K would or should China give a flying 2 bits about keeping the status quo that is very obvious only seems to serve and maintain the control of western powers.

I mean, to suggest that Americans will line up with glee to die for the next unnecessary and evil war of hegemony is laughable. The majority of Americans and the West could not even be bothered to sign up, suit up and fight the Russian invaders despite their holier than thou pontifications, am supposed to believe that America and the entire west would lay down their lives for the yellow race and place hundreds of miles away from them?

Western countries, and other nations that support this naked American aggression along with it's alignment of security policy have not been at all honest with their voters and public that has been largely kept ignorant and in the dark to what awaits us if and when the war with China happens. A draft will be issued because regardless of any advancements in military tech etc.. it'll still require warm bodies to secure, hold, any gained territories. The insane fact that China has bazillion people, and is A NUCLEAR STATE can't be understated.

While it's very easy for the average ignorant Joe's and Jane's of the west to dismiss China's capabilities but it's another when the actual reality of Military combat sets in requiring great sacrifice of lives from these people who are so easily taken by the false narrative of China weak yet menacingly strong at the same time.

There's just no real commitment from the public to commit what's actually necessary to even dream of defeating China in an area where it's most intimately familiar with, and is prepared to literally toast the world as we know it to protect it's national sovereignity and territorial integrity (Taiwan, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Tibet) that they have been singing for a long time with unceasing and unwavering consistency. So come hell or high water they will die defending the country because it's something worth dying and living for.
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
If the US is dumb enough to actually deploy combat units to Taiwan before China moving a finger, then it can be seen as an act of war, wouldn't be sanctioned by the UN nor supported by the Western allies. That actually would give China the moral high ground.
If the Western allies include those most loyal to the DC i.e. UK, Australia, Poland, Japan and Canada, then they would definitely support the US.

The UN sanctioning the US? I hope you are joking, because that ain't gonna happen. The US illegally invaded Iraq in 2003 without UNSC approval, did the UN sanction them?

Sure but operationally if you declare independence without referendum you run the risk of facing an uprising from some ROC forces who might declare this to be a rebellion against ROC. While PLA war planners cannot count on this or risk making the same mistake as Putin, DPP themselves will have to factor this into their calculation.
As to whether DPP could do it illegally, while being totally contemptuous of their 国军 they are also afraid what the military would do in such an event. Until they are 99% sure the military would side with them I don't think they will do it.
The main concern with this assumption is that the higher levels of the ROC military (国军) has been purged over the years by the DPP, replacing pro-KMT commanders with the ones who are pro-DPP.

I'm afraid what's left of the command system in the 国军 are mere puppets of the DPP who would blindly follow the wishes of their masters in Taipei and Washington DC instead of the people on both sides of the strait.
 

infinity_wor;d

New Member
Registered Member
I think the west is in a "Wag the Dog" situation right now. It's not the dog wagging the tail, but instead, the tail is wagging the dog. Their democracy is so toxic that the propaganda they use to against their enemy eventually leaves them no choice but to be wagged by the tail, by what should be their puppet.

Ukraine. They say Ukraine is winning. They say Ukraine is "the fortress of democracy". Propaganda brainwashes their own people and opens a shortcut for politicians to do what they want, like support Ukraine's Nazis. But now, when some western countries, maybe including the US, want to quit this game, they found themself tied with their propaganda. If they stop supporting Ukraine, Zelensky will accuse them for abandon the so-called democracy fortress. They will lose their precious vote. So now, as you can see, only a few politicians dare to stand up and say fvck you Zelensky, and they are almost exactly those who refuse to support Ukraine from the beginning. Ukraine is asking - not begging - for help. The west dare not to reject it. The tail is wagging the dog.

Vietnam is the same case. The famous domino theory. If Vietnam fail at the hand of the communists, other Southeast Asia countries will fail too, like dominoes. Nonsense, but persuade people to support US intervention in Southeast Asia. But, when the US decided to give up Vietnam, they found themself with no choice but to keep supporting it even in the form of war, for people in the US believe that if give up Vietnam, Southeast Asia will fail. The tail is wagging the dog.
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
I just have to ask you this question flat out: What makes you think that in the event of the very unfortunate war between America and China, instigated by American led provocation that it'll come out on top against a much more determined adversary, a technologically advanced, well motivated, and smart military that's China?

Do I believe that America and the keyboard warriors will all of a sudden line up and sign up with their military when they see one or two of their precious air craft carriers are split in half, blown up, sink by Chinese hypersonic missiles along with thousands of dead American sailors, pilots, and marines?

It's been a long time since America has fought a peer that's almost equal to her in every way. And since all this chicken little talk about China not ready due to X, Y, Z, well tough, there's never a perfect situation for China to go to war and waste not only the precious lives of her people but the damage a war will inflict upon Taiwan, China. I mean if America is supposedly prepared to essentially destroy the U.N. and much of the International laws that underpin international relations then why the f.. K would or should China give a flying 2 bits about keeping the status quo that is very obvious only seems to serve and maintain the control of western powers.

I mean, to suggest that Americans will line up with glee to die for the next unnecessary and evil war of hegemony is laughable. The majority of Americans and the West could not even be bothered to sign up, suit up and fight the Russian invaders despite their holier than thou pontifications, am supposed to believe that America and the entire west would lay down their lives for the yellow race and place hundreds of miles away from them?

Western countries, and other nations that support this naked American aggression along with it's alignment of security policy have not been at all honest with their voters and public that has been largely kept ignorant and in the dark to what awaits us if and when the war with China happens. A draft will be issued because regardless of any advancements in military tech etc.. it'll still require warm bodies to secure, hold, any gained territories. The insane fact that China has bazillion people, and is A NUCLEAR STATE can't be understated.

While it's very easy for the average ignorant Joe's and Jane's of the west to dismiss China's capabilities but it's another when the actual reality of Military combat sets in requiring great sacrifice of lives from these people who are so easily taken by the false narrative of China weak yet menacingly strong at the same time.

There's just no real commitment from the public to commit what's actually necessary to even dream of defeating China in an area where it's most intimately familiar with, and is prepared to literally toast the world as we know it come hell or high water.
The fascists needed neither proper judgements nor rational justifications to wage war against peer powers in the Second World War.

As long as the nuclear button isn't carried onto the table, what makes you think they won't attempt similar misadventures against a (near-)peer power like China? Besides, China isn't known to be the ones who would swing their nuclear stick up in the air like Russia, North Korea and India do. Meanwhile, it is directly legit in the US military playbook to employ tactical nuclear warheads during wartime, and they do not have No-First-Use policy.

All the series of actions taken by the capitals of Western powers against China right now has clearly indicated that they would rather 杀敌一千,自损八百 (kill 1000 of the enemy, lose 800 of yourself) than accept China's rejuvenation to become a peer superpower. This is in direct contrast to Beijing's way of seeking win-win cooperation with everyone across the world.

Even if the end result turns out to be the West losing 1000 and China loosing 800, that doesn't matter as long as China's rejuvenation is stunted, and the global hegemonic stranglehold by the West is maintained. See the difference?
 
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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The fascists needed neither proper judgements nor rational justifications to wage war against peer powers in the Second World War.

As long as the nuclear button isn't carried onto the table, what makes you think they won't attempt similar misadventures against a (near-)peer power like China?

All the series of actions taken by the capitals of Western powers against China right now has clearly indicated that they would rather 杀敌一千,自损八百 than accept China's rejuvenation to become a peer superpower. This is in direct contrast to Beijing's way of seeking win-win cooperation with everyone across the world. See the difference?
Regardless of how supposedly beautiful and menacing the US plan(s) are the ENEMY (China) gets a vote/say always.

The only thing you have to ask is are they truly and really prepared for what's to come? The answer to that is a f.. Hell No. The Ukraine war, and the preceding wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia etc.. have convinced me that the west and their supposed commitment is a JOKE.

The China of today isn't the China of the just recently created and established PRC under Mao. The China of today is many times more powerful, sophisticated and technologically advanced. Most of all these people are highly disciplined, motivated to avoid any repeat of the 100 years of humiliation. Chinese people know their history and have long memories.

All I can confidently say is to underestimate China is to bring calamity to the west and the world. Taiwan is non-negotiable period.
 

Feima

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm afraid what's left of the command system in the 国军 are mere puppets of the DPP who would blindly follow the wishes of their masters in Taipei and Washington DC instead of the people on both sides of the strait.

国军 is 1st line of defense of ROC. Funnily enough, 共军 is ROC's 2nd line of defense. Of course, should 共军 be activated to defend ROC, then ROC would cease to exist when the defending is done.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Regardless of how supposedly beautiful and menacing the US plan(s) are the ENEMY (China) gets a vote/say always.

The only thing you have to ask is are they truly and really prepared for what's to come? The answer to that is a f.. Hell No. The Ukraine war, and the preceding wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia etc.. have convinced me that the west and their supposed commitment is a JOKE.

The China of today isn't the China of the just recently created and established PRC under Mao. The China of today is many times more powerful, sophisticated and technologically advanced. Most of all these people are highly disciplined, motivated to avoid any repeat of the 100 years of humiliation. Chinese people know their history and have long memories.

All I can confidently say is to underestimate China is to bring calamity to the west and the world. Taiwan is non-negotiable period.
I made some edit and addition to my original post.

国军 is 1st line of defense of ROC. Funnily enough, 共军 is ROC's 2nd line of defense. Of course, should 共军 be activated to defend ROC, then ROC would cease to exist when the defending is done.
共军 will be activated, regardless of whether 国军 is pro-Beijing or pro-DC. The ROC would no longer exist after the war is over, as long as the shooting is initiated.
 
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jwnz

Junior Member
Registered Member
If the Western allies include those most loyal to the DC i.e. UK, Australia, Poland, Japan and Canada, then they would definitely support the US.

The UN sanctioning the US? I hope you are joking, because that ain't gonna happen. The US illegally invaded Iraq in 2003 without UNSC approval, did the UN sanction them?



The main concern with this assumption is that the higher levels of the ROC military (国军) has been purged over the years by the DPP, replacing pro-KMT commanders with the ones who are pro-DPP.

I'm afraid what's left of the command system in the 国军 are mere puppets of the DPP who would blindly follow the wishes of their masters in Taipei and Washington DC instead of the people on both sides of the strait.
I don't believe the traditional US allies would support the US if the US simply deploys combat units in Taiwan without plausible justifications, such as having China firing the first shot or mobilising a large amount of forces and declaring a "SMO".

Btw, I said such an act by the US would be considered an act of war and would not be "sanctioned" as "approved" by the UN, not that the UN would sanction the US over such an act.
 

zbb

Junior Member
Registered Member
If the US ever fly a balloon, I call them for copying, IP infringement and reverse engineering.

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These high-altitude weather balloons, or HABs, are the center of an EMU program selected to participate alongside about 70 other colleges in NASA’s and Montana State University’s Nationwide Eclipse Balloon Project.
 
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