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tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
BoraTas said:
These are just projections of Western white supremacist ideas on China. It is true that the ruling elite of China wasn't Han for half of the last millennium but that is irrelevant because nations, as we know them today, didn't exist back then. The idea of nations is mostly a modern idea. It is so global and fundamental which leads people to think it always existed but that is simply not true. The said Mongol ruling elite used to sell their tribal slaves to Han and Arab landlords to finance their luxurious lifestyles. Over time this led to Mongols becoming the lowest caste of Yuan Empire unless they were nobles. Most of the Yuan army that conquered China was Han and there were a lot of Mongols in uprisings against the Yuan Dynasty. As I said, never think about nations while reading about pre-1700s history. The concept didn't exist. There were just ruling factions and their lands. Qing and Yuan Dynasties played the political game well and they found a lot of supporters, which included a lot of Hans as the demographics of East Asia would mandate. That enabled them to rule lands that we today know as China.

And if we are talking about modern times, the term "Chinese" includes all ethnicities living in China, a gift to China by the Qing Dynasty. Both ROC and PRC wisely adopted the same policy too.
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You know that's interesting. This brings me a lot of old memorys，decades ago when Chinese internet was pretty free compare to now，there were many ethnic minority forums.

I had visit many of those forums，the atmosphere was very toxic and antagonistic against Han people and China in general. There was nothing explicit against the CCP nor anything about "independent from China"，I guess it's just that the server is located inside China and they don't want the forum get shutdown by the authority. But the anti-China sentiment is very clear on these forums，it's filled with negative news about China，you‘d get banned if you say anything good about China.

Specifically，there was ethnic Zhuang/Miao forum，who relate themself to Southeast Asia countries rather than China. And I remember some Han poster post something like “we are all descendants of Yan[di] and Huang[di]炎黄子孙 ”，then got reply like "No，we are the descendants of 蚩尤Chiyou，we are not the same with you（Han）".

And there was ethnic Korean forum，who relate themself to North and South Korea but not China. They claim that Korean war was mainly fought between North Korean and US army，Chinese army had no role in it，and China somehow is blamable for the split up of two Koreas.

Then there was ethnic Manchu forum，it's just full of horseshit like how great the Qing was and Han people are ungrateful.

There were more，but it's been 10 years and I forgot alot.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
tonyget said:
You know that's interesting. This brings me a lot of old memorys，decades ago when Chinese internet was pretty free compare to now，there were many ethnic minority forums.

I had visit many of those forums，the atmosphere was very toxic and antagonistic against Han people and China in general. There was nothing explicit against the CCP nor anything about "independent from China"，I guess it's just that the server is located inside China and they don't want the forum get shutdown by the authority. But the anti-China sentiment is very clear on these forums，it's filled with negative news about China，you‘d get banned if you say anything good about China.

Specifically，there was ethnic Zhuang/Miao forum，who relate themself to Southeast Asia countries rather than China. And I remember some Han poster post something like “we are all descendants of Yan[di] and Huang[di]炎黄子孙 ”，then got reply like "No，we are the descendants of 蚩尤Chiyou，we are not the same with you（Han）".

And there was ethnic Korean forum，who relate themself to North and South Korea but not China. They claim that Korean war was mainly fought between North Korean and US army，Chinese army had no role in it，and China somehow is blamable for the split up of two Koreas.

Then there was ethnic Manchu forum，it's just full of horseshit like how great the Qing was and Han people are ungrateful.

There were more，but it's been 10 years and I forgot alot.
Click to expand...

Whenever you create a forum specifically for an ethnic group, you will find these kinds of ethnic incels gravitating toward it.

It happens here at SDF as well, but thankfully we've got a pretty good moderation team.
 
A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
tonyget said:
You know that's interesting. This brings me a lot of old memorys，decades ago when Chinese internet was pretty free compare to now，there were many ethnic minority forums.

I had visit many of those forums，the atmosphere was very toxic and antagonistic against Han people and China in general. There was nothing explicit against the CCP nor anything about "independent from China"，I guess it's just that the server is located inside China and they don't want the forum get shutdown by the authority. But the anti-China sentiment is very clear on these forums，it's filled with negative news about China，you‘d get banned if you say anything good about China.

Specifically，there was ethnic Zhuang/Miao forum，who relate themself to Southeast Asia countries rather than China. And I remember some Han poster post something like “we are all descendants of Yan[di] and Huang[di]炎黄子孙 ”，then got reply like "No，we are the descendants of 蚩尤Chiyou，we are not the same with you（Han）".

And there was ethnic Korean forum，who relate themself to North and South Korea but not China. They claim that Korean war was mainly fought between North Korean and US army，Chinese army had no role in it，and China somehow is blamable for the split up of two Koreas.

Then there was ethnic Manchu forum，it's just full of horseshit like how great the Qing was and Han people are ungrateful.

There were more，but it's been 10 years and I forgot alot.
Click to expand...
Thank fvck the Chinese authorities clamped down on these forums, and thank goodness the Chinese government strengthen their moderation and control over the Internet ever since.

Say, if those forums and other similar medium of communication are left as wide open today as they were decades ago, China would have been stuck with constantly fighting against civil dissidence and disobedience, ethnic tensions and even civil wars across China.

You could even bet that Washington DC and Langley are more than delighted to fund more of these elements in order to create more chaos and destruction within China, and China would find it much harder to develop and grow peacefully than it is in our timeline.

Take the various acts of terrorism conducted by the Uyghur extremists and separatists across China over the past 2 decades, and multiply that by how many ethnic minorities are there in China - The impact would be insurmountable.
 
A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Indonesian Jakarta-Bandung high-speed rail line successfully conducted its trial run yesterday (November 16), with Indonesian President Jokowi and Chinese President Xi watching the trial run together through a live video feed.


63759b8cc6d0a7578542aace.jpeg
63759b8cc6d0a7578542aad0.jpeg

A big step for the Chinese HSR industry; a giant step for China's Belt-&-Road Initiative; and a massive step for the cooperation, integration, development and growth across the Global South! Forward!
 
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PopularScience

PopularScience

Junior Member
Registered Member
SanWenYu said:
I doubt that Xi said "很天真" even though that must have been what was in his mind at the moment. It sounded to me that someone else nearby said something when Xi was walking away.

Xi does not have a big mouth. He was aware of the surrounding, in particular the live recording which was obviously not taken by a Chinese delegate.
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挺天真
 
E

Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
BoraTas said:
These are just projections of Western white supremacist ideas on China. It is true that the ruling elite of China wasn't Han for half of the last millennium but that is irrelevant because nations, as we know them today, didn't exist back then. The idea of nations is mostly a modern idea. It is so global and fundamental which leads people to think it always existed but that is simply not true. The said Mongol ruling elite used to sell their tribal slaves to Han and Arab landlords to finance their luxurious lifestyles. Over time this led to Mongols becoming the lowest caste of Yuan Empire unless they were nobles. Most of the Yuan army that conquered China was Han and there were a lot of Mongols in uprisings against the Yuan Dynasty. As I said, never think about nations while reading about pre-1700s history. The concept didn't exist. There were just ruling factions and their lands. Qing and Yuan Dynasties played the political game well and they found a lot of supporters, which included a lot of Hans as the demographics of East Asia would mandate. That enabled them to rule lands that we today know as China.

And if we are talking about modern times, the term "Chinese" includes all ethnicities living in China, a gift to China by the Qing Dynasty. Both ROC and PRC wisely adopted the same policy too.
Click to expand...
These ideas were first popularized by the Imperial Japanese, mainly to legitimize Imperial Japanese rule in China. The Japanese still push it to an extent but without the political incentive, their influence is weak. Instead it's Westerners, Koreans, and Indians who most push these kinds of narratives today. The first to weaken Chinese nationalism so they can divide and conquer; the second to strengthen their own nationalism ("we were kings," etc.); and the last because of crab mentality - ie India has been ruled by foreigners for most of its recent history, so they want to bring Chinese down to the same level.

Chinese minorities were also major proponents of these ideas mainly because of the competition for ethnic prestige within China. Since Han are the dominant group today, there is natural fear and insecurity on the side of other groups, who then try to bring Han down in order to protect & elevate themselves. In many respects, it's similar to how minorities in the US act in relation to the white majority - ie it's not that surprising because it's ultimately about self-interest. However, different from the US, the Chinese government arrested this development in the last decade or so and has continued to push for cultural assimilation. So today, there is less of a difference between ethnic groups in China than there was two decades ago; while the opposite is the case in the US.
 
T

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
Thank fvck the Chinese authorities clamped down on these forums, and thank goodness the Chinese government strengthen their moderation and control over the Internet ever since.

Say, if those forums and other similar medium of communication are left as wide open today as they were decades ago, China would have been stuck with constantly fighting against civil dissidence and disobedience, ethnic tensions and even civil wars across China.

You could even bet that Washington DC and Langley are more than delighted to fund more of these elements in order to create more chaos and destruction within China, and China would find it much harder to develop and grow peacefully than it is in our timeline.

Take the various acts of terrorism conducted by the Uyghur extremists and separatists across China over the past 2 decades, and multiply that by how many ethnic minorities are there in China - The impact would be insurmountable.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But I'm not a fan of too much restrictions of internet in general，I missed the old days of surfing on Chinese military forum. I am one of those who transferred to SDF due to mass shutdown of Chinese military forum since 2019.
 
Breadbox

Breadbox

Junior Member
Registered Member
tonyget said:
Specifically，there was ethnic Zhuang/Miao forum，who relate themself to Southeast Asia countries rather than China. And I remember some Han poster post something like “we are all descendants of Yan[di] and Huang[di]炎黄子孙 ”，then got reply like "No，we are the descendants of 蚩尤Chiyou，we are not the same with you（Han）".

And there was ethnic Korean forum，who relate themself to North and South Korea but not China. They claim that Korean war was mainly fought between North Korean and US army，Chinese army had no role in it，and China somehow is blamable for the split up of two Koreas.

There were more，but it's been 10 years and I forgot alot.
Click to expand...
Certain group of people never changes no matter where they reside, this is shockingly consistent with how North Korea pretends it did most of the fighting during the Korean war and many in South Korea (probably the North as well) pretends how they won the Imjin War all by themselves. And how they are clearly the rightful inheritor of ancient east asian culture while China has lost it all. This sort of delusion is directly fed by the near complete inability to read any historical record written by their own ancestor, even cursory reading into their own historical record would see their own ancestor clowning on their modern-day delusions.

Abit off topic but perhaps the most shambolic thing is how Japan gets to parade its "traditional buildings and landmarks" around and wow people with its "TraditionalNess" despite most of them being the age of an average boomer because the original was destroyed by US air raids.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
BoraTas said:
These are just projections of Western white supremacist ideas on China. It is true that the ruling elite of China wasn't Han for half of the last millennium but that is irrelevant because nations, as we know them today, didn't exist back then. The idea of nations is mostly a modern idea. It is so global and fundamental which leads people to think it always existed but that is simply not true. The said Mongol ruling elite used to sell their tribal slaves to Han and Arab landlords to finance their luxurious lifestyles. Over time this led to Mongols becoming the lowest caste of Yuan Empire unless they were nobles. Most of the Yuan army that conquered China was Han and there were a lot of Mongols in uprisings against the Yuan Dynasty. As I said, never think about nations while reading about pre-1700s history. The concept didn't exist. There were just ruling factions and their lands. Qing and Yuan Dynasties played the political game well and they found a lot of supporters, which included a lot of Hans as the demographics of East Asia would mandate. That enabled them to rule lands that we today know as China.

And if we are talking about modern times, the term "Chinese" includes all ethnicities living in China, a gift to China by the Qing Dynasty. Both ROC and PRC wisely adopted the same policy too.
Click to expand...
Yuan + Qing is < 500 years (Qing 1644-1912, ~270 years, Yuan 1279-1368, ~80 years)

Otherwise Song (almost 300 years) is Han, Ming (almost 300 years) is Han, ROC and PRC are officially multiethnic, but led by Han.

Meanwhile the original British were first enslaved by the Romans, then the Vikings, then the Normans. Original English is extinct and replaced by a mixed language of Germanic-French, just compare books like Beowulf to today. On multiple occasions the king of England was replaced by German or Dutch monarchs.

The original Mongols of the Yuan were destroyed by the Ming when Hongwu Emperor razed Shangdu to the ground, they became the northern Yuan, and they were then conquered and enslaved by the Yongle Emperor. Mongolia never recovered and became irrelevant while for centuries before Mongolia was a superpower with tens of millions in population stretching from Samarkhand in Turkmenistan to the Pacific Ocean.
 
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