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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
There was like a 20-30% inflation rise overall in consumer prices in Russia. It was pretty steep. In automobiles the inflation was a disaster and prices basically doubled. What to expect after all the Western auto-manufacturers pulled out all their facilities from Russia and took their ball home with them. Of course there are limitations. The price of bread is basically the same. Fuel. Same.
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My understanding is that western auto manufacturers handed over their stake in joint ventures for peanuts before exiting. It could cause short term price disruptions but in the long term will lead to cheaper cars as Renault, Volkswagen will no longer require a cut.
gelgoog said:
It is not like the inflation was low pre war though. It was already at like 10%.

There are all sorts of little broken things in the economy but the worst thing was the logistics are all out of whack. The main European shipping companies refuse to do trade with Russia. Trade at the Port of St. Petersburg, which does trade with Europe basically, was cut in half. And the links to China and Turkey are basically clogged.
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Again, this sounds like a short term problem. If there is demand for Chinese products, shipping volume will be increased.

European shipping companies weren't operating as a charity before the war, they shipped to Russia for commercial reasons. Cutting yourself off from one of Europe's biggest markets for political reasons is suicidal.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Temstar said:
It's also why they continue to make bad decisions on things like how to handle COVID and how to treat SEA and pacific nations. If you assume everything China does is wrong and do the opposite, then China just need to make correct decisions and US will destroy itself trying to do the opposite.

I shell refer to this as the "George Costanza Fallacy" of geopolitics.
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This is also why the western elite hate China’s covid response so much and blame China for their own failures.

By their perverted ‘logic’ China did an amazing job on covid response not for the good of China’s people, but purely to fuck then over by making it impossible for them to do the right thing since doing so would mean they would have to follow China’s lead. So it was actually China which forced them into herd immunity so all the needless deaths and suffering that resulted was actually China’s fault.

If you look at all the recent flagship western programmes designed to counter China, you can basically see that they are just projecting because all of those programmes were designed not to benefit anyone but instead purely to fuck with China.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Bob Smith said:
I always hear this from Iran propagandists(not saying you're one) that they have insane education, science and industry but have never seen anything come out of that country besides hydrocarbons.

Iran has about the same population as Turkey and there's no amount of propaganda that can convince me that Iran has an economy over 2.5x larger than an unsanctioned Turkey.
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I work in a Western high tech company for most of my carrier, the numbers of engineers of foreign (non-west, non European) origin are first Chinese followed by Iranians, only in recent decade, Indians overtook Iranians being the second. Considering the size of population, Iran is doing better than most countries. I have never seen a single engineer from the gulf countries, rich or poor. I have only seen two engineers of Turkish origin, only one is actually from Turkey.

Among these Iranians, many are from Iran recently, not born in the west. This gives you a very good idea that Iranian population is very focused on science and reasoning regardless the form of government or religion. This is very much like Chinese. In fact the first Chinese envoy of Han dynasty to present day Iran reported that "The people are sophisticated, living in well built cities, just like we Chinese." On the other hand, many countries in western Asia are nomadic or semi-nomadic not long ago. The difference in their mind do not simply change, therefor the impact on their economy.

Sanctions did not stop Chinese building rocket and nuclear bombs. It did not stop North Koreans to be more technically advanced and industrialized than many richer SE countries. Why would it work on Iran?
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
xypher said:
They don't understand that GDP is not a tell-all metric. For example, if Italy got sanctioned the same way, probably no one would notice except for people who wear their shitty luxury clothes. Similarly, GDP produced through services and "imputed rent" (inflates US GDP by $1.5 trillion, completely virtual thing) is not equivalent to the GDP produced by manufacturing, mining or agriculture. That's why in reality Chinese GDP is way more "real" than the GDPs of EU or USA.
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I must disagree with this.

if Italy got sanctioned their regimes will be in uproar as their oligarch ruling class can no longer maintain their Fincantieri yachts. So it will be 100% all over the media as a highly unjust sanctions regime.
 
B

Bob Smith

Junior Member
Registered Member
taxiya said:
I work in a Western high tech company for most of my carrier, the numbers of engineers of foreign (non-west, non European) origin are first Chinese followed by Iranians, only in recent decade, Indians overtook Iranians being the second. Considering the size of population, Iran is doing better than most countries. I have never seen a single engineer from the gulf countries, rich or poor. I have only seen two engineers of Turkish origin, only one is actually from Turkey.

Among these Iranians, many are from Iran recently, not born in the west. This gives you a very good idea that Iranian population is very focused on science and reasoning regardless the form of government or religion. This is very much like Chinese. In fact the first Chinese envoy of Han dynasty to present day Iran reported that "The people are sophisticated, living in well built cities, just like we Chinese." On the other hand, many countries in western Asia are nomadic or semi-nomadic not long ago. The difference in their mind do not simply change, therefor the impact on their economy.

Sanctions did not stop Chinese building rocket and nuclear bombs. It did not stop North Koreans to be more technically advanced and industrialized than many richer SE countries. Why would it work on Iran?
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If I anecdotally said there's a lot of Nigerian engineers working around me in a high tech field in America, would I be able to convince you that the country of Nigeria highly values education and science?

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Iranians don't really stand out that big as far as household income which is a proxy for educational status.

Estimate of 1.5 million Iranian Americans doesn't make them that small of an ethnic group in American, either.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
taxiya said:
I work in a Western high tech company for most of my carrier, the numbers of engineers of foreign (non-west, non European) origin are first Chinese followed by Iranians, only in recent decade, Indians overtook Iranians being the second. Considering the size of population, Iran is doing better than most countries. I have never seen a single engineer from the gulf countries, rich or poor. I have only seen two engineers of Turkish origin, only one is actually from Turkey.

Among these Iranians, many are from Iran recently, not born in the west. This gives you a very good idea that Iranian population is very focused on science and reasoning regardless the form of government or religion. This is very much like Chinese. In fact the first Chinese envoy of Han dynasty to present day Iran reported that "The people are sophisticated, living in well built cities, just like we Chinese." On the other hand, many countries in western Asia are nomadic or semi-nomadic not long ago. The difference in their mind do not simply change, therefor the impact on their economy.

Sanctions did not stop Chinese building rocket and nuclear bombs. It did not stop North Koreans to be more technically advanced and industrialized than many richer SE countries. Why would it work on Iran?
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can't go by diaspora due to selection bias.

Korean American diaspora mostly lives in Koreatowns and own liquor stores, their household income is far lower than Indian Americans. Yet how are South Korea and India doing?
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Bob Smith said:
If I anecdotally said there's a lot of Nigerian engineers working around me in a high tech field in America, would I be able to convince you that the country of Nigeria highly values education and science?
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It is the ratio of various group that proves my point. A number of a single group says nothing no matter how high that number is.

Bob Smith said:
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Iranians don't really stand out that big as far as household income which is a proxy for educational status.

Estimate of 1.5 million Iranian Americans doesn't make them that small of an ethnic group in American, either.
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What does income even mean to the subject "industrialization, science and tech"? "White" American has higher income, but what is their ratio in the tech and industry? Only if you count banking as "industry" (laughable) would "White" be stronger.

China, Japan and South Korea's household are still behind US, yet these three are more industrialized and productive than US.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
can't go by diaspora due to selection bias.

Korean American diaspora mostly lives in Koreatowns and own liquor stores, their household income is far lower than Indian Americans. Yet how are South Korea and India doing?
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In this part of Europe, there are very little Chinese, Indian or Iranian immigrants before the 1990s. All started on the same footing.

The diaspora in my case are not small shop owners. They are just like Chinese arrivals after 1990s with high education.

In this case, there is no bias between Iranian and Chinese or Indians.

Only in the US, there are such bias due to the history of multiple waves of migration of different backgrounds.

Also please note, I won't count the Korean American in Koreantown as Korean, but American, because after generations they don't represent what South Korea has become, except maybe some language. You can see that I made this point regarding Turkish engineer in my my company by saying "only one is actually from Turkey". Same as the Chinese immigrant in Chinatown represent nothing about PRC's achievement and capability.

My central point is not about a person's ancestral heritage, but a country and society's historical impact on the population within its border. Once that person left the land for long especially not born and grown up on the land, the person effectively has nothing to do with what I am saying.
 
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AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
KYli said:
H&M is forced to close its flagship store in China. A total of 31 stores were shut down in the last quarter of 2021. Guess consumers boycott works.
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H&M's problem is they thought their standing as a Western brand was more important to the Chinese than their insult to the Chinese and that would save them. If they were truly a company of conscience, they wouldn't be in China at all. But they're in China because that's what they believed. You better believe they regret it even though they'll spin it as they put their conscience above money because they have nothing to lose now since they lost it already.

Now you have the New York Times trying to spin that rare earths sourced to make EV batteries in China come from Xinjiang which means it must be slave labor. Even the New York Times said it themselves that there are "red flags" meaning they haven't confirmed it or else it wouldn't be red flags and instead a matter of fact. All it'll do is make EVs in the US more expensive using already inferior US battery technology in a country wary of EVs in the first place and on top of that cost too much money. Translation... Less EVs are sold in the US meaning less money for R&D to further EV technologies. Chinese EV makers have had no access to the US yet leading the world in EV technologies. Why? Because Chinese don't need the US market to be successful meaning the US has no power to stop it.
 
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