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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I admired Putin He think ethnic Russian was maltreated He send it the troop! Wow That is what a great nation supposed to do. contrast that you know who?

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Who? A country that started a few decades ago shorter than Russia's knee but now has a much higher GDP than Russia, and growing faster than Russia in economics, tech, and military?

I love Russia; I love it second only to China. Amongst all foriegners, I admire Putin the most. But Russia played it tough by feverishly building its military at the first oppertunity and becoming obviously hostile to the West too soon, and so it was not allowed to build a strong economic base, which, historically, you needed Western support to do. Without this economic base, Russia's challenge to the West was self-limiting; it will always be a pain to deal with but not a real challenge. China, on the other hand, played it smart, by pretending to be pliable and accepting at first so the West thought it was no threat. It got rich integrating itself into every critical economy in the world and became the largest trading nation. After this economic base was built, China boosted its military and by the time the West saw that threat, it was too late because China had already gathered all the tools and supplies it needed to keep going in the same trajectory. Every example of a weaker nation that you bring up doing differently from China proves that China's way is better.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
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I have no words
Then the guys carrying the coffin accidentally drop it; it splits open and the corpse rolls downhill with a mob of bungling jawans chasing it until it goes into a river where they see the crocs shred it LOL
Hopefully there isn't a ship related transport component to this... yikes.
They'll strap the coffins on top of a train and the train will go through something like this, except the train's not as modern as the one pictured:
dangerous-train-route-in-world_1.jpg
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Who? A country that started a few decades ago shorter than Russia's knee but now has a much higher GDP than Russia, and growing faster than Russia in economics, tech, and military?

I love Russia; I love it second only to China. Amongst all foriegners, I admire Putin the most. But Russia played it tough by feverishly building its military at the first oppertunity and becoming obviously hostile to the West too soon, and so it was not allowed to build a strong economic base, which, historically, you needed Western support to do. Without this economic base, Russia's challenge to the West was self-limiting; it will always be a pain to deal with but not a real challenge. China, on the other hand, played it smart, by pretending to be pliable and accepting at first so the West thought it was no threat. It got rich integrating itself into every critical economy in the world and became the largest trading nation. After this economic base was built, China boosted its military and by the time the West saw that threat, it was too late because China had already gathered all the tools and supplies it needed to keep going in the same trajectory. Every example of a weaker nation that you bring up doing differently from China proves that China's way is better.

I don't think Russia realistically had any hope of building up its economy enough to effectively resist.

Russia has a population of 144 million, so even if they had developed economically, you're looking at a country comparable to Japan.
So Russia would still face an EU many times larger, along with the US which is also many times larger
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I don't think Russia realistically had any hope of building up its economy enough to effectively resist.

Russia has a population of 144 million, so even if they had developed economically, you're looking at a country comparable to Japan.
So Russia would still face an EU many times larger, along with the US which is also many times larger

Russia uses much more hard core strategies because NATO is literally at their gates. Despite the hype about China being encircled by US based, none of the US allies (barring India, but they are not full allies and the border is mostly inhospitable) has land border with China. Compare the distance between Ukraine/the Baltic states to Moscow and the distance between South Korea to Beijing and you’ll get my point.

Russia also has fewer tools at its disposal than China. When Lithuania threatens Russian interest they can only resort to military intimidation/possibly energy embargo. What China did was essentially long arm economic embargo of Lithuanian goods within the EU as per their minister’s admission. If Russia had such leverage, it wouldn’t use the same military card so much.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Russia uses much more hard core strategies because NATO is literally at their gates. Despite the hype about China being encircled by US based, none of the US allies (barring India, but they are not full allies and the border is mostly inhospitable) has land border with China. Compare the distance between Ukraine/the Baltic states to Moscow and the distance between South Korea to Beijing and you’ll get my point.

Russia also has fewer tools at its disposal than China. When Lithuania threatens Russian interest they can only resort to military intimidation/possibly energy embargo. What China did was essentially long arm economic embargo of Lithuanian goods within the EU as per their minister’s admission. If Russia had such leverage, it wouldn’t use the same military card so much.


I agree completely.

Russia realistically can't build up their economy enough. And a key constraint to that is their small population.

So they go for the military card a lot faster.
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
I agree completely.

Russia realistically can't build up their economy enough. And a key constraint to that is their small population.

So they go for the military card a lot faster.
In a fair and non dollar based world the Russia economy should have about 1.5 to 2.0 times the potential of the economy of Germany.

So pretty much a more powerful and resource rich japan. If I'm not mistaken they are pretty much done sprinting to modernizing their military, so they can now take a breather from spending resources for that goal and now focus on internal infrastructure development once the Ukraine drama has wind down.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I agree completely.

Russia realistically can't build up their economy enough. And a key constraint to that is their small population.

So they go for the military card a lot faster.
Then this should be a signal that Russia needs a strategic contraction in order to focus its limited resources better

I had long insisted that for Russia, their solution to all these problems was always the Central Asian countries
Russia made a good start with the Eurasian economic Union but AFAIK since then, it has stalled
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Then this should be a signal that Russia needs a strategic contraction in order to focus its limited resources better

I had long insisted that for Russia, their solution to all these problems was always the Central Asian countries
Russia made a good start with the Eurasian economic Union but AFAIK since then, it has stalled

I think the importance of the Central Asian countries is overstated, if you look at their population and GDP

I've always thought Russia has a particularly bleak business environment.
There's no incentive to build sustainable hi-tech businesses for the long-term, which is the next step for the Russian economy.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think the importance of the Central Asian countries is overstated, if you look at their population and GDP

I've always thought Russia has a particularly bleak business environment.
There's no incentive to build sustainable hi-tech businesses for the long-term, which is the next step for the Russian economy.
Russia always thought Central Asia as a source of low salary migrants which would go to Russia and do "undesireable" jobs with low costs. And also saw it from a military perspective. Minimal effort was put into economics

What if it had a more strategic vision and properly invested in these countries from the 2000s.
Like China, it invested in all these developing countries and after so many years, it has started getting the "rewards" out of it. In the next decade this will become even more obvious

The strategic space in the European continent was always extremely limited, as such it should have switched to Central Asia a decade or more ago

Even now you see that Russia is restricting Central Asia's economic ties with China by using the Eurasian Union. What if it had cut a deal with China a decade ago and integrate all these markets together?

Anyway, these are all "what if" scenarios, but I wanted to emphasise that Russia always had solutions in the East. What's blocking further economic ties of Central Asia and China is Russia which is reluctant to lose more influence
 
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