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- Thread starter bd popeye
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Literally, everything claimed by India after the 2020 Galwan clash turned out to be lies. My confidence in discussions on this forum has increased.
solarz
Brigadier
It's pretty much what everyone predicted, China has plenty of videos and will release them when the Indian side gets uppity.
I think you don't understand how it works and I hope the people in charge do not have the kind of arrogant attitude you espouse.
As a Kenyan who's lived in the west, travelled extensively in China, it is in China's best interest to counter the west's propaganda blitz. You don't just say that people should not be stupid to believe American propaganda.
China desires good relations and should not be as hard headed as your comment implies. She needs African resources and should open her vast market to African produce while providing scholarships to African students. She should never stop trying to win hearts and minds.
At the same time, Chinese businessmen in Africa should not give the anti Chinese media ammunition to turn the local people against China.
Again as someone who knows a thing or two, I can tell you that Chinese construction here do a good job(and are preferred) but they are also known to be very corrupt. On this I blame the local environment and use of middlemen to win tenders/enter market but I wish the Xi government could clamp down hard on overseas corruption.
The Chinese also don't help with their super secretive loan contracts which is why it is has been very easy to weaponize the debt trap nonsense.
This guy is probably the biggest lawyer in Kenya and listen to what he says. He's the president's lawyer and very close to power.
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I agree with your overall points. China need to work extra hard to put up a good profile since they can't compete with the west on media presence and narrative formation.
But while the video above is enlightening i find it very one sided since US and EU companies also deal on kick back and it's not just chinese companies. The lawyer makes it seem like only the Chinese are corrupt but the west can be just as corrupt such as SNL lavalin, kick back to Afghanistan president by the US and this.
So while China should change some of their approach, how do china improve their media and messaging in Africa?
Warning: long post.
Anyway, China has already unilaterally reduced its tariffs by lot to many African imports. In addition, it is currently pursuing free trade deals with many countries there. Lastly, China is indeed interested into building the African continent into a prosperous region. Hopefully, African people can spot the difference between China's good to US' bad intentions for them.
As for media, they are either western-owned (propaganda) or take western cash to print fake stories (see the recent expose in a newspaper in an African country)
This media thing you mention is connected with the lack of PR/media skills by China in Africa. It is my opinion that much more should be done to counter this but alas, the propaganda top leaders are old. Need more young people to help them understand new technologies and media tactics. It has gotten better but it still far from adequate
AFAIK this only applies for environment at the moment. There have also been discussions about corruption but it is still early from what I know. At least, digitization will reduce corruption and China is already helping many African countries in building digitised gov services.
I advocate for transparency but I am sure that there are reasons why things are like that now.
I believe that in the next years, gradually more transparency will happen for contracts.
If he has a problem, then he should contact the Chinese ambassador stationed there to find a solution and punish them (already done recently, heard that some top company people + the company, will face charges to a court in China)
Yes
Yes. It is a fact that most people are idiots, and even smart people will eventually fall for the propaganda. Thats why "continuous" propaganda is effective
Yes, but China also pays for them. Its not like China is getting these resources for free. Infact, with prices increasing so much African nations must have benefited a lot by exporting to China
That would be as a part of a free trade deal. Surely you dont expect for China to open its market for free to African goods. In return China will ask for reducing tariffs for advanced Chinese goods. IMO Thats an acceptable trade off for both parties.
Anyway, China has already unilaterally reduced its tariffs by lot to many African imports. In addition, it is currently pursuing free trade deals with many countries there. Lastly, China is indeed interested into building the African continent into a prosperous region. Hopefully, African people can spot the difference between China's good to US' bad intentions for them.
China already offers scholarships to African students. IMO it needs to expand the program but it is what it is. I will also note that this helps Africa a lot as China, educates these students to a high standard and then many of them return back to their own country for work. Not like the US which causes brain-drain to Africa
Businessmen are humans too, which means that a small portion of them always do stupid things. China isnt God to predict what each person will do when he goes to Africa. The host countries should contact the Chinese ambassador in their countries, give them evidence and they will be sent back in China to face civil and criminal charges.
As for media, they are either western-owned (propaganda) or take western cash to print fake stories (see the recent expose in a newspaper in an African country)
This media thing you mention is connected with the lack of PR/media skills by China in Africa. It is my opinion that much more should be done to counter this but alas, the propaganda top leaders are old. Need more young people to help them understand new technologies and media tactics. It has gotten better but it still far from adequate
Well that was (partly) solved recently. Last I heard, some changes were made to how Chinese (state ?) companies should operate in foreign countries. AFAIK it is stated that in some cases if the foreign country's law for environment is weaker than China's, then it should do projects upon the stricter environmental Chinese metrics (follow host country's law but go beyond and implement even better measures).
AFAIK this only applies for environment at the moment. There have also been discussions about corruption but it is still early from what I know. At least, digitization will reduce corruption and China is already helping many African countries in building digitised gov services.
This is very true. However one reason might be that in a lot of contracts because the host country had little financial resources, staked some (land/resources ?) collateral which would be quite bad politically for the host country and the international reputation for China to become public (see the Sri Lanka western propaganda).
I advocate for transparency but I am sure that there are reasons why things are like that now.
I believe that in the next years, gradually more transparency will happen for contracts.
^^ Take it as you will, but this is why having democracy while being a developing and very poor country is not a good idea. Because only Chinese companies are corrupt while all the other countries from the rest of the world are honest companies... joke.
If he has a problem, then he should contact the Chinese ambassador stationed there to find a solution and punish them (already done recently, heard that some top company people + the company, will face charges to a court in China)
solarz
Brigadier
You want Xi Jinping to clamp down on corruption in Kenya?
You are basically asking China to act exactly like the western colonial powers, interfering African countries domestic affairs in the name of "anti-corruption". Isn't that the reason why Africans did not get meaningful assistance from the west ever since independence? Because Africans are "corrupted", West refuse to aid the "corrupted", West condemns the Chinese helping the "corrupted", West will sanction or even teach a lesson to the Africans who do not follow the wests' teaching.
In the article you posted it is instead of "corruption" but "labor condition", another thing that the west has been using to attack any cooperation between China and Africans. I can see other fancy words coming like "human right", "voting right", "environment".
I believe that you as a person who has moved to Canada and therefor have your stake in the west more than in Kenya has nothing to do with Kenyan's future, therefor pretty much speaking along the line of western interest. I don't see you as an Kenyan, but just another Canadian brainwashed by the western media.
My god