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huemens

Junior Member
Registered Member
Official Chinese readout is out. If no relaxation on chip controls, China L

You trade Rare Earth export control for Chip export control. Not for just a single BIS rule

How is it a loss if China is not demanding for Chip relaxation. The Rare earth rules from October 9 are a retaliation for that particular BIS rule. So it is a 1:1 swap. There's no loss here.
China is better off in the long run if the chip restrictions stays in place. Earlier China didn't even demand for H20, which US allowed unilaterally due to Nvidia lobbying rather than China request. Then China had to block it on their end.
If you read the Chinese statement, every concession China is giving is the exact retaliation they did for the corresponding action from US.
 
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uguduwa

Junior Member
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I am a bit disappointed. It looks like China is not yet ready to take on the US. After all Chinese economy is based on exports. As for Trump, the man is a reality TV clown who thrives on drama. This meeting is basically to solve a problem that he created for no reason.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
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I am a bit disappointed. It looks like China is not yet ready to take on the US. After all Chinese economy is based on exports. As for Trump, the man is a reality TV clown who thrives on drama. This meeting is basically to solve a problem that he created for no reason.
Someone said it every well earlier in the thread: don't you want US farmers to grow next year's Chinese leverage?

Same for REE. US create a card out of thin air, China create a card out of thin air, both cards cancel out and we're back to square one. If you were hoping for China to get US to sign some sort of unequal treaty today I recommend you review Mao's "On Protracted War" on how this is done.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
It's not but it should at least try to prevent war. Notice how Americans and their European puppets say that no sides should change the "status quo by force in Taiwan" even though Taiwan is literally seen as part of China. China could at least use that type of language to push back a bit on blatant imperialist and extrajudicial killings

What makes you think China would want to deter America from getting into another stupid war of choice, but this time on its own doorstep?

The Russians are already itching for some major pay back for all the interference in Ukraine. China would be more than happy for them to take the lead and provide additional support and investments itself should the Venezuelans prove worthy of said help.

Trump’s naked imperialistic tendencies and overt threats would not have gone unnoticed in the rest of LATAM, so neighbouring countries may prove more receptive than one would think to the argument that they should turn a blind eye to Russian and Chinese arms flowing across their boarders to nip America’s military misadventures in the bud, least Trump turn his sights on them next if he annexes Venezuela too easily.
 
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huemens

Junior Member
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I am a bit disappointed. It looks like China is not yet ready to take on the US. After all Chinese economy is based on exports. As for Trump, the man is a reality TV clown who thrives on drama. This meeting is basically to solve a problem that he created for no reason.

It's the opposite. It shows China was able to stand up to US. China put equivalent retaliatory measures on every US action since this admin took over.
Then US had to seek meetings with China. China reduced the measures only when US reduced the corresponding unilateral actions the US initiated. You are being deceived by the way the news is framed in the west.
Soybean tariff is a part of retaliatory measures against fentanyl tariff of 20%. They just reduced fentanyl tariff to 10%. So China is going to purchase some soybean. But not in the same quantity as before. If US remove fentanyl tariff completely may be China would buy same quantity of soybean as before, may be not.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Someone said it every well earlier in the thread: don't you want US farmers to grow next year's Chinese leverage on US?

Same for REE. US create a card out of thin air, China create a card out of thin air, both cards cancel out and we're back to square one. If you were hoping for China to get US to sign some sort of unequal treaty today I recommend you review Mao's "On Protracted War" on how this is done.
However by throwing the October 9 RE nuke, now whole West is going to speedrun the RE supply chain development

This was going to be inevitable ofc, but why awake them to this danger without actual huge benefit?

Only thing I can think of is that a background deal was made that US is going to silently relax NVIDIA controls and/or relax ASML sanctions so that tmr in the negotiations with EU, China will demand them to drop ASML export controls in return for pausing RE export control for 1 year

That would be a big brain Go move tbh where it would allow US to save face and EU to be thrown under the bus lol
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
However by throwing the October 9 RE nuke, now whole West is going to speedrun the RE supply chain development
Do you honestly believe that? Why didn't they speed run it back when Obama was talking about it? How's that speed running working out for Japan over the last 10 years?

When was the last time you saw US correctly carry out a major program that required societal wide effort over a decade or more? The Apollo program?
 

uguduwa

Junior Member
Registered Member
Someone said it every well earlier in the thread: don't you want US farmers to grow next year's Chinese leverage?

Same for REE. US create a card out of thin air, China create a card out of thin air, both cards cancel out and we're back to square one. If you were hoping for China to get US to sign some sort of unequal treaty today I recommend you review Mao's "On Protracted War" on how this is done.
It's the opposite. It shows China was able to stand up to US. China put equivalent retaliatory measures on every US action since this admin took over.
Then US had to seek meetings with China. China reduced the measures only when US reduced the corresponding unilateral actions the US initiated. You are being deceived by the way the news is framed in the west.
Soybean tariff is a part of retaliatory measures against fentanyl tariff of 20%. They just reduced fentanyl tariff to 10%. So China is going to purchase some soybean. But not in the same quantity as before. If US remove fentanyl tariff completely may be China would buy same quantity of soybean as before, may be not.
Soon Trump will start another conflict becsuse he is mentally 5 year old without a care in the world. It doesn‘t matter to him if the US or the world economy suffers and has nothing better to do other than to create drama and play golf. Can you say the same about Chinese bureaucrats? They certainly have better things to do than to attend these useless meeting every 2nd month to entertain a toddler. There should be permenant consequences for these kinds of antics and I think soybean tariffs was the least China could do in this respect. It‘s a shame they removed it.
 

9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
Do you honestly believe that? Why didn't they speed run it back when Obama was talking about it? How's that speed running working out for Japan over the last 10 years?

When was the last time you saw US correctly carry out a major program that required societal wide effort over a decade or more? The Apollo program?
Heck even with Apollo thats a big question mark...
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
However by throwing the October 9 RE nuke, now whole West is going to speedrun the RE supply chain development

With Chinese tech restrictions in place, the west can at best build up their refining capabilities at a snail’s pace. Just look at how long it’s taking them to build their glorified boarder fence. It will take them years to get any new refining capacity operational at best, and decades to approach the scale and purity China has today. There is no imminent threat of the RE card loosing its bite anytime soon.

This was going to be inevitable ofc, but why awake them to this danger without actual huge benefit?

Only thing I can think of is that a background deal was made that US is going to silently relax NVIDIA controls and/or relax ASML sanctions so that tmr in the negotiations with EU, China will demand them to drop ASML export controls in return for pausing RE export control for 1 year

That would be a big brain Go move tbh where it would allow US to save face and EU to be thrown under the bus lol

You are vastly overestimating the importance of Nvidia chips.

There are two main reasons for China agreeing to this pause.

First, China’s own domestic chip production is right at the cusp of reach breakthrough in mass rollout. This extension eliminates the possible supply gap until that happens. One year is meaningless for the west in the RE race, but it’s a watershed moment for China in terms of chips.

Secondly, China wants to slow boil the American crab, so it’s dead before it even knows it. This deal is just China dialling the heat down a notch when the American crab is showing signs of agitation. It’s easier to boil it slowly when it’s calm and still as opposed it realising what you are doing and threshing about in the pan splashing boiling water all over the place. China doesn’t want to choke America so hard that it sees directly military action as the only play left.
 
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