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Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
I think that many people overestimated Iran. They are clearly only a standard regional power under siege right now.

They are not China and Russia who can actually take a Western all-around hybrid attack, from economic sanctions, propaganda, military provocations, and geopolitical pressure, and not only survive but instead make the West pay more and get more damage objectively.

I think that it is good Iran survived the Western total sanctions, military attacks, and intelligence operations and stands still, with a still operational regime that is better economic, military, and socio-political situation than Israel, the little overlord of the Western sphere now.

Not many countries in the world can do that. But, we can't expect more from Iran. Nor should Iran expect much help from China too.

China instead of investing in Iran, better invest in its own military, and industry, which will also eventually be used against the US anyway.

Why invest billions in a foreign country, when you will also eventually have to fight against the US yourself too anyway?

It is way safer option to invest in your own capacity primarily, which will stay there forever and you can micromanage.

People should see what happened to Assad, in fact, that's why I now respect leaders like Maduro and the Iranian regime even more.

It is truly a miracle how they managed to still keep their power and sovereignty intact after all those sanctions and secondary sanctions.

For you to be able to repel and return Western economic attacks, you need to have substantial power and self-sufficiency internally, and significant international influence.

Only great powers and superpowers can do that. Russia couldn't do that some time ago, but now it clearly can.

And if Russia managed to narrow the gap with the American empire so much in this hybrid war, imagine how much equal superpower China would pulverize them if they decided to fight it like that.

But they have no choice anyway. That's why I think that all the US frenzy about success against Assad and partially Iran now is brainless.

That's like China being proud of being able to clash to a standstill against Great Britain or France nowadays in 2024.

They should first look at how Russia beat them in Ukraine and in the economic showdown, how China slapped their economic sanctions like a fly and used their tech sanctions as fuel to develop itself, etc.

Look at that and the humiliation of the EU now (an important part of the American empire that the US center now cannibalizes).
PRC of the 1950s had nothing, basically Taliban level technology and precarious control over China proper and still managed to deal a bloody nose to the americans in korea and to the indians in '62. It's the Will to Fight that's lacking in Iran, not technology, hence why i and others here have been as critical as we have been towards Iran and to an extent Syria. Lack of willingness to fight in the face of an enemy that cannot be reasoned with, because it has no principles, by itself, that lack of willingness to fight indicates cowardice and the desire to accomodate the enemy, as the current Iranian regime is doing reflects a betrayal of the resistance against the anglo zionist world order. Indians are the same, it's like there's an arc of cowardice despite big talk and chest thumping that extends from the subcontinent to north africa. The 'gold chain races' as it were. Only the Houthis are the exception.

As those Chinese netizens pointed out, Chinese willingness to fight in Korea induced the Soviets to invest as much as they did to the PRC because the Soviet Union finally saw value in what PRC could be. Iran has yet to demonstrate it is worth Chinese treasure, let alone Chinese blood. Syria demonstrated its own cowardice, and its commitment more towards an islamic ummah rather than the syrian state in its own right. May the old gods and the new have mercy on its soul.
Probably because of this:

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An effort to keep Ukraine onside and away from the West; a noble effort but futile in the long run.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
PRC of the 1950s had nothing, basically Taliban level technology and precarious control over China proper and still managed to deal a bloody nose to the americans in korea and to the indians in '62. It's the Will to Fight that's lacking in Iran, not technology, hence why i and others here have been as critical as we have been towards Iran and to an extent Syria. Lack of willingness to fight in the face of an enemy that cannot be reasoned with, because it has no principles, by itself, that lack of willingness to fight indicates cowardice and the desire to accomodate the enemy, as the current Iranian regime is doing reflects a betrayal of the resistance against the anglo zionist world order. Indians are the same, it's like there's an arc of cowardice despite big talk and chest thumping that extends from the subcontinent to north africa. The 'gold chain races' as it were. Only the Houthis are the exception.

As those Chinese netizens pointed out, Chinese willingness to fight in Korea induced the Soviets to invest as much as they did to the PRC because the Soviet Union finally saw value in what PRC could be. Iran has yet to demonstrate it is worth Chinese treasure, let alone Chinese blood. Syria demonstrated its own cowardice, and its commitment more towards an islamic ummah rather than the syrian state in its own right. May the old gods and the new have mercy on its soul.

An effort to keep Ukraine onside and away from the West; a noble effort but futile in the long run.


It's different because the PRC always had the potential to be a superpower due to its size, population, and national, social, and ethnic cohesion.

That's why it was so tough to crack even when it lacked in material things. Whereas half of Iran's population is not even Persian and couldn't be happier to backstab the moment Iran enters into some kind of a greater war against the US.

If there is something to be blamed, this is not that Iran is weak, or traitorous toward China and Russia, just cause, but historical and civilization differences that didn't allow them to develop internal unity and harmony on the level of China for example.

Why is that, geography, position on the map, mountains, farming type, I don't know, but this is something that happened thousands years ago.
 

luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
The media got no money.
President Xi, I am Hillary, 77 year old girl from Chicago. My government is repressive and manipulated our elections. Please send J-20 multirole stealth fighter
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Filipino members, on a scale of 1 to 10, how cooked is your country?
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the vice president faces impeachment complaints from both opposition figures as well as Marcos-friendly elements in Congress while former president Duterte is under investigation for his controversial “drug war”, which claimed the lives of tens of thousands of suspected drug dealers and users during his six-year tenure.
Confronting an existential crisis, the Dutertes have lashed back by actively threatening the government, organizing anti-Marcos rallies and even allegedly conspiring to unseat Marcos Jr through extraconstitutional means.

The ex-president has openly called for “People Power” against his successor, harkening to the massive protests that unseated the late Ferdinand Marcos Sr dictatorship. More recently, he has come just short of endorsing a military coup against Marcos Jr.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
The media got no money.

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Filipino members, on a scale of 1 to 10, how cooked is your country?
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Wrong!!!! completely wrong analogy !!!!! Coming from Asia Times is no surprised, it's mostly domestic and China is a convenient excuse to prolong and seized power not only by the Marcoses BUT the whole oligarchy which the Marcos Family belong and created since most of them are their former cronies.

And about the Duterte's let's see what happen under Trump Duex, FYI during the 2016 Presidential election there is a CIA led campaign under the former US ambassador Goldberg to interfere and make sure that their prefer candidate Manuel Roxas of Liberal Party prevail, when the plan A didn't succeed they plan a colored revolution to derailed the Duterte's administration. When Trump won, Goldberg wad replaced and the two president friendship grew during the 2017 APEC meeting in Manila. After that Duterte goes on the rampage replacing all those corrupt and traitors Yellow's in gov't institution especially from the Police and the Judiciary and jailing a dirty Horny female Senator in Laila De lima. And this time with NO repercussion from the US especially the War on Drugs as Trump share his vision in eradicating the threat at any way possible.

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Nov 13, 2017 — Human rights issues “briefly came up” as the leaders met in a friendly session on the sidelines of a summit meeting in the Philippines.

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Dec 29, 2016 — Philip Goldberg and the arrogance of power.


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Dec 28, 2016 — HOUSE Speaker Pantaleon Alvarez on Tuesday called for a congressional investigation into the “blueprint” allegedly drawn up by former US ...
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
It's different because the PRC always had the potential to be a superpower due to its size, population, and national, social, and ethnic cohesion.

That's why it was so tough to crack even when it lacked in material things. Whereas half of Iran's population is not even Persian and couldn't be happier to backstab the moment Iran enters into some kind of a greater war against the US.

If there is something to be blamed, this is not that Iran is weak, or traitorous toward China and Russia, just cause, but historical and civilization differences that didn't allow them to develop internal unity and harmony on the level of China for example.

Why is that, geography, position on the map, mountains, farming type, I don't know, but this is something that happened thousands years ago.
Iran is from their own perspective not that stupid either. They know they have superior military power on their side IF they just wait for China to push first. As there is no room for negotiation in the greater Asia rulership dispute between US and China.

The real stupidity of Iran is them hamstringing their own economy with religious laws and nonsense ideas. It is repeatedly seen that sanctions with international reach don't have a significant effect on economies. Iran is stuck at the Indonesia and slightly above India development level (two countries sanction by no one by the way) because of their governmental inefficiency which is on par with those nations.

It doesn't matter at all that Iran can't sell to the US. It would matter maybe if Iran was an innovation giant that needed to saturate every single market.

Iranian leaders are too smart for their own good, they think about how to win but not about how to serve the people. And sure they can win great influence and land by using China as a shield if their plans all turn out to work. But it wouldn't fundamentally change the awful domestic policies that essentially kneecaps the nation in the service of some sort of Islamic fidelity which I will not judge if it is right or wrong morally, but at least objectively provides nothing of value for earthly lives.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
Iran is from their own perspective not that stupid either. They know they have superior military power on their side IF they just wait for China to push first. As there is no room for negotiation in the greater Asia rulership dispute between US and China.

The real stupidity of Iran is them hamstringing their own economy with religious laws and nonsense ideas. It is repeatedly seen that sanctions with international reach don't have a significant effect on economies. Iran is stuck at the Indonesia and slightly above India development level (two countries sanction by no one by the way) because of their governmental inefficiency which is on par with those nations.

It doesn't matter at all that Iran can't sell to the US. It would matter maybe if Iran was an innovation giant that needed to saturate every single market.

Iranian leaders are too smart for their own good, they think about how to win but not about how to serve the people. And sure they can win great influence and land by using China as a shield if their plans all turn out to work. But it wouldn't fundamentally change the awful domestic policies that essentially kneecaps the nation in the service of some sort of Islamic fidelity which I will not judge if it is right or wrong morally, but at least objectively provides nothing of value for earthly lives.


I honestly also have no idea why Iran's economy is so weak. I can only attribute it to that we maybe underestimated the power and the effects of Western sanctions after seeing how greatly they backfired on China and Russia recently and how they dusted them off. However, maybe they really have great harmful potency against these regional powers and 'normal' countries. It is not just Iran, look at Venezuela for example.

These kinds of countries are already not particularly prosperous even before sanctions as part of the Global South, not to mention with such sanctions. The greatest problem of sanctions is their secondary nature that literally no one wants to have much to deal with you to not offend the US, and if you are not internally self-sufficient enough and externally influential, as Russia as of recent, and China, you are kinda done for.

Generally, an autocratic regime like the Iranian (no matter its nature, if it is theocratic or secular) should have theoretically been the most effective solution for their economy, look at what Putin did for Russia for example, or CCP for China. So, I was always surprised why their economy is so shit. So something has to be missing.

It could be true that they spend too much resources and focus on religious matters. But keep in mind that what can keep such a population of a dozen ethnic groups, with Persians barely 51%, united in one place? You guessed it. It is religion. I think that they simply have to invest so much energy precisely because of that, having a trade-off.

Also, basically, some kind of religious propaganda, heavy enforcement, and a strong hand are also necessary once again to keep everything from falling apart. They are not like China which has a strong natural cultural tendency toward centralization and collectivism organically.
 
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