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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
tokenanalyst said:
Stooge: We need to make a "hellscape" with drones.

China: We are going to make a sustained hellscape of that hellscape with our drones.

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What's really scary is this drone launcher video was released 4 whole years ago. Now couple that with the meaning of China even allowing it to be shown in video and not being classified. Now couple that again with 4 years in China speed being like 12 years in Western speed...

Now you know why this whole US Hellscape thing is a big joke lol. In reality, the only Hellscape that is going to happen is the other way, China will inflict such a Hellscape to US that will make Imperial Japan's WW2 defeat look like a kindergarden kids fight.

As I said, extremely funny. Let's see their reaction after the next airshow
 
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iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
Overbom said:
What's really scary is this drone launcher video was released 4 whole years ago. Now couple that with the meaning of China even allowing it to be shown in video and not being classified. Now couple that again with 4 years in China speed being like 12 years in Western speed...

Now you know why this whole US Hellscape thing is a big joke lol. In reality, the only Hellscape that is going to happen is the other way, China will inflict such a Hellscape to US that will make Imperial Japan's WW2 defeat look like a kindergarden kids fight.

As I said, extremely funny. Let's see their reaction after the next airshow
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Yeah it's pretty insane that Americans would go to length describe all the things they need to win against China: massive industrial base, a huge logistic support fleet, bases with close geographical proximity, and then only go so far as saying US don't have those yet / need to build those.

If they go a single step further in this train of thought, they'd arrive at China infact do have everything in that list, and might even figure out the entire island chain concept doesn't actually work in combat, and they're infact China's defensive advantage, that's its China who has the geographical, logistic and industrial advantage needed to occupy and take advantage of those islands.

Case in point, Americans spend so much time wargaming trying to prevent a PLA landing operation onTaiwan from their base in Okinawa, they never stopped to think what to do if China's landing operation is on Okinawa.

Infact if you keep going with this train of thought, you'll actually arrive at the final conclusion which is the geographical distance between CONUS and Hawaii, and the total lack of islands between them is a huge vunerability to the US, because by the time China pushes to Hawaii, US forces will both be degraded and be at a massive logistictial disadvatage trying to defend anything west of California.
 
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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
iewgnem said:
Yeah it's pretty insane that Americans would go to length describe all the things they need to win against China: massive industrial base, a huge logistic support fleet, bases with close geographical proximity, and then only go so far as saying US don't have those yet / need to build those.

If they go a single step further in this train of thought, they'd arrive at China infact do have everything in that list, and might even figure out the entire island chain concept doesn't actually work in combat, and they're infact China's defensive advantage, that's its China who has the geographical, logistic and industrial advantage needed to occupy and take advantage of those islands.

Case in point, Americans spend so much time wargaming trying to prevent a PLA landing operation onTaiwan from their base in Okinawa, they never stopped to think what to do if China's landing operation is on Okinawa.

Infact if you keep going with this train of thought, you'll actually arrive at the final conclusion which is the geographical distance between CONUS and Hawaii, and the total lack of islands between them is a huge vunerability to the US, because by the time China pushes to Hawaii, US forces will both be degraded and be at a massive logistictial disadvatage trying to defend anything west of California.
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In WW2 the only way of attack was with short ranged aircraft and battleships and the only way of seeing the battlefield was with scouts reporting visual sightings. That means taking an island was an advantage, as now you could base your own recon and strike forces forward while pushing the enemy's field of vision back. The logistical burden of supplying dispersed airfields and ports was worth it because it denied enemy data, maneuver space and forward strike positions.

Today you do not need to base recon and strike forces forward due to long range missiles and satellite/drone recon with long ranged radar. You can see where everyone is and strike, both from safety. Unlike on a continent, there's nowhere to hide on an island. But scattered islands still represent a huge logistical burden. So the benefits go down but costs don't.
 
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iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
In WW2 the only way of attack was with short ranged aircraft and battleships and the only way of seeing the battlefield was with scouts reporting visual sightings. That means taking an island was an advantage, as now you could base your own recon and strike forces forward while pushing the enemy's field of vision back. The logistical burden of supplying dispersed airfields and ports was worth it because it denied enemy data, maneuver space and forward strike positions.

Today you do not need to base recon and strike forces forward due to long range missiles and satellite/drone recon with long ranged radar. You can see where everyone is and strike, both from safety. Unlike on a continent, there's nowhere to hide on an island. But scattered islands still represent a huge logistical burden. So the benefits go down but costs don't.
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One thing is you're thinking from China's perspective, yes with China's massive fleet of civilian ships, >1000km range ship-based hypersonic ASMs and massive industrial base, islands don't matter as much, China can park 3-4 Type 052Ds across the Pacific and cover the entire Pacific and deploy a few hundred bulk carriers to resupply other ships via tenders of drones.

But Americans don't have those, they don't have the massive civilian fleet to resupply at sea nor long range ship based penetrating ASMs, America is still a WW2 legacy carrier centric force with a fixed combat radius, any farther and they need massive amount of aerial refuelling, that takes time to transit from the nearest airfield. That's why they came up with the island hopping idea, or hellscape, because they do need the islands, and Chinese control denies them that access.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The US has in my opinion only two advantages. One is their nuclear attack submarines, and the other is reusable launchers like the ones by SpaceX.

In case of a full blown peer vs peer conflict you can expect each side to start shooting down the satellites of the other. The side with the greatest launch and satellite building capacity will likely win that part of the conflict.
 
In4ser

In4ser

Junior Member
gelgoog said:
In case of a full blown peer vs peer conflict you can expect each side to start shooting down the satellites of the other. The side with the greatest launch and satellite building capacity will likely win that part of the conflict.
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Imo debris field alone from all the satellite wreckages will probably make orbital space in operable for months if not years making SpaceX reusable capability moot until they can clear everything.
 
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