Miscellaneous News

Arij Javaid

Junior Member
Registered Member
Short term wise, this litho machine trade restriction will bottleneck China's semiconductor industry. But in the longer term, the Chinese will eventually find a way to break that bottleneck. They are messing with a nation who can build their own Space Station after being denied entry to the ISS. Let them suffer for eternally for that.
Isn't YMTC and SMEE working on lithography tools??

I wonder how long it will take for them to develop EUV
 

Elevenz

New Member
Registered Member
Their own paper explains why: Chinese students don't get kicked out after year 2 if they're doing poorly while US, Russian and Indian students do.

Note that in the US, according to their own data, there's no gain in critical thinking in years 1 and 2, which are weedout years.

So by their standards, a country where 90% of students don't fail, is worse than a country where 90% of students fail but the 10% that pass are good.

US college graduation rates are 63% overall. And that's for 6 years.

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US CS graduation rates are 65% at a representative average school ranked ~100.

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So basically US numbers are only comparable if you drop the lowest 1/3 of Chinese scores since Chinese universities rarely force students to leave.
The funniest thing about this clickbait research is that the title says STEM but the metric used is some throwaway Computer Science test scores (although the title at the place I read it at
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). Strange generalization in the abstract to start already regardless. At best all this research proves is that US CS students are the best in the world but we might as well start throwing people into castes using the SAT with the methodology and narrative combination they are trying here.

Also from personal experience, average CS graduates even from elite (by their definition of an Uni average of 1250 SAT which is literally every state school or better) is absolutely horrible. Way too many of them can't even use the command line despite being forced to by the curriculum. But hey, turns out when you allow just about anyone to pass due to curving grades and overall low standards, the quality ain't that high. Even interactions with the average super elite such as average student at a top school like Berkeley leaves me very underwhelmed.

This also doesn't include the fact that there is no reason to take this test seriously from the perspective of the student. They try and pretend like this is a serious test for serious students but it says that to deal with motivation issues, they performed "robust" background checks and excluded people who did not finish. They also have the incredibly sweet incentive of giving you a personalized report of your test, how amazing! Imagine being some random average student in China (or any of the places) and your professor who is trying to push out another paper for the paper mill asks you to take some random foreign test you have never heard of before but hey it lines up with standards or something so I'm sure average students suddenly become motivated to take it seriously.

"We took several steps to ensure that examination-taking conditions were similar for all students. First, we provided the same incentives to students. In particular, students were given the option of receiving an individualized report of their examination performance. Second, to address concerns about student motivation in taking the examination, we conducted robustness checks in which we excluded a small minority of students (1.7%) that did not answer at least 75% of the items"

Another specifically laughable part in my opinion is that the test itself asks some basic architecture questions in which almost no CS student would remember unless they just took the class because most of these guys just wanna get some web dev job lol.

I think this is a
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of the test they took as far as I can tell.
Have any of the CS people here heard of this? I've never heard of this before. Everyone just talks about leetcode which is probably a better measurement since everyone thinks that will land you interviews + jobs. Sure it's just data structures and algorithms but its not like the average code monkey really know anything about CS principles in the first place.

Also do you mind quoting or pointing out where they talk about Chinese students not getting kicked out and the no gain in critical thinking? I couldn't find it.
 

Jiang ZeminFanboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
China is already playing the Game Theory with the West, but not in they way they wanted it played. Game Theory was invented by the Western imperial powers to predict and game their adversaries through a combination of psychology and maths. Hence they do things to elicit responses from China and to hopefully get into its decision-making cycle. For example, by provoking proxy wars, bad economic policies, bad diplomacy, etc. China wants to avoid the fate of the Soviet Union, who had a history of responding directly to the US's moves. If you play the US's game, they'll win and you'll lose.

China have been evolving the way its been playing the Game. During the Trump administration, China was mostly reactive, appointing "wolf-warriors" like Zao Lijian to say shocking words at the US after the shocking things they did. Mirror tariffs, mirror sanctions, mirror kidnapping, etc. Math right? But pure math doesn't always work. For example, the US could always tariff way more Chinese imports than China could tariff American imports. Tariffs are also not healthy for the global competitiveness of the local industries in the long term. That is why it is not a good idea to do tit-for-tat tariffs just for the sake of math. Mirroring the opponent just to settle scores, is not smart. China is trying to be more strategic with its moves.

China has to hurt the West in a more strategic way. Sanctioning Baerbock is gonna be so fun, but what is the long term benefit of that? She is just a sock puppet for the Yankees. So why not tariff European brandy to piss-off Macron? To remind the EU that they are all in this together. If Baerbock and Ursula does something stupid next again, maybe Meloni's Italian winemakers can get to feel the heat too. It puts all of EU on edge, slowly dividing it.

If you observe China these days, it appears more calm, it acts passive-aggressive, and is also taking a number of quiet victories. China doesn't need to telegraph to its adversaries what it intends to do. So when things happen, it surprises people, and makes us wonder if China had really planned these things out. Things like the Russia-China bromance, BRICS expansion, Saudi-Iran peace deal, etc. You need to zoom out and look at the bigger picture to see the Game in play today.


What cities did your extended family lived in? Is it the big ones?

The economy of China is changing, and this adjustment is very painful indeed. The pre-trade war economic model of contract manufacturing and property speculation is dead, and millions of urban Chinese got caught up in this. If you think the current economic malaise and "lost future" in China is bad. Take a look at the developed parts of SEA, South Asia, and the rest of the Global North. Unemployment and underemployment is up. Businesses have shuttered. Factories are closing down. Unlike in China, inflation is also rampant. Also like in urban China, the current generation cannot afford property like the last one. The whole global economy have been f**ked by the combo of Covid, the Ukraine War, and the new Middle East wars. People have to accept this fact and adjust the way they earn money, or get left behind. Yes this sucks. China is hurting, but the West and the rest are hurting just as much if not more. The West is making a big mistake by starting all these crap, and then doubling down on stupid. So the best course of action now is to allow them to continue effing up take more heat, which the CPC is doing quite well.
I think what @GZDRefugee says many people are struggling with is partially right. The businesses that I believe are struggling the most are small stationary retail stores (so-called middleman, e.g. that's the reason for Indonesia recently banned Temu, etc.) A lot of people did get maybe not very wealthy but good enough doing trade business to live a comfortable life. Suddenly they were wiped out by the internet era Taobao, Pinduoduo, Douyin internet stores. The retail business went from factory -> middleman-> customer to almost factory -> customer

Why buy from a stationary shop which is more expensive if you can order online cheaper?

You can see a huge amount of empty stores now in China as everything went to the internet. And yes that's how has China as a factory of the world, changed so fast, for the vast majority of people it is a good thing, cause they get cheaper things, with delivery to their houses.

Now that middlemen are getting wiped out, they need to find other ways for the live.

In the West still middleman is still the king, it's good chunk of the economy, however, it will also change sooner or later.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
If I recall, Zelensky let slip that Ukraine might develop nuclear weapons and then the following week, Russia invaded Ukraine. Seems like Ukrainians are desperate to keep this war going on in the midst of a potential trump victory in November .
This new release of threats is response to this one where Kazakh President mention to German Chancellor that Ukraine cannot win but this new statement he added Putin has support of people and use the word extermination. I am sure he knows more about Russia military since his country is testing ground for Russian weopons. why Kazakh president is important in certain matters than you will have to understand the Arabic Soft Power aka Muslims in Russia and how messaging is relayed. remember that Russia-Turkey fighter jet clash.
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Astana. October 17. KazTAG – President of Kazakhstan Kassym-Jomart Tokayev has once again declared Russia’s military invincibility, the agency’s correspondent reports.

"As I said during the talks with Chancellor Scholz, Russia is militarily invincible. This is a fact confirmed by Russia's military potential, the support of the country's population for President Putin's policies, and history itself. Therefore, we consider it necessary to seek options for a peaceful settlement and support the realistic plans of all states, including China and Brazil," Tokayev said on Thursday.

According to him, “there is no other way.”

"The alternative is a war of mutual extermination. Perhaps some world powers are interested in this, but this is a path to the abyss. The desire for peace through constructive negotiations is not a sign of weakness, but an expression of strategic prudence," Tokayev said.

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Putin admitted that it was Nazarbayev who was the mediator in establishing relations with Turkey​

 

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
I've heard that china's bombers and nuclear submarine is still a generation behind the US but does it really matter that much if china can produce it at a rate exponentially higher than the US?? I'm pretty sure a small technological difference will easily be compensated
If you think Chinese submarines are behind, wait til you find out how many generations Chinese spies are behind the US, I mean how many famous Chinese spies do you know?
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
The funniest thing about this clickbait research is that the title says STEM but the metric used is some throwaway Computer Science test scores (although the title at the place I read it at
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
). Strange generalization in the abstract to start already regardless. At best all this research proves is that US CS students are the best in the world but we might as well start throwing people into castes using the SAT with the methodology and narrative combination they are trying here.

Also from personal experience, average CS graduates even from elite (by their definition of an Uni average of 1250 SAT which is literally every state school or better) is absolutely horrible. Way too many of them can't even use the command line despite being forced to by the curriculum. But hey, turns out when you allow just about anyone to pass due to curving grades and overall low standards, the quality ain't that high. Even interactions with the average super elite such as average student at a top school like Berkeley leaves me very underwhelmed.

This also doesn't include the fact that there is no reason to take this test seriously from the perspective of the student. They try and pretend like this is a serious test for serious students but it says that to deal with motivation issues, they performed "robust" background checks and excluded people who did not finish. They also have the incredibly sweet incentive of giving you a personalized report of your test, how amazing! Imagine being some random average student in China (or any of the places) and your professor who is trying to push out another paper for the paper mill asks you to take some random foreign test you have never heard of before but hey it lines up with standards or something so I'm sure average students suddenly become motivated to take it seriously.

"We took several steps to ensure that examination-taking conditions were similar for all students. First, we provided the same incentives to students. In particular, students were given the option of receiving an individualized report of their examination performance. Second, to address concerns about student motivation in taking the examination, we conducted robustness checks in which we excluded a small minority of students (1.7%) that did not answer at least 75% of the items"

Another specifically laughable part in my opinion is that the test itself asks some basic architecture questions in which almost no CS student would remember unless they just took the class because most of these guys just wanna get some web dev job lol.

I think this is a
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of the test they took as far as I can tell.
Have any of the CS people here heard of this? I've never heard of this before. Everyone just talks about leetcode which is probably a better measurement since everyone thinks that will land you interviews + jobs. Sure it's just data structures and algorithms but its not like the average code monkey really know anything about CS principles in the first place.

Also do you mind quoting or pointing out where they talk about Chinese students not getting kicked out and the no gain in critical thinking? I couldn't find it.
non paywalled:

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Its in paragraph containing:

The substantial losses in academic skills among students in elite and non-elite institutions in China—as opposed to the gains in India and Russia—are striking and perhaps unexpected. The results are robust even after accounting for (negligible) differences in test-taking motivation in each assessment wave (Supplementary Information D). A possible contributor to the skill losses is that students in China are rarely forced out of courses or programs for poor performance and may therefore be less motivated to study. Another possible reason is that Chinese instructors, despite a similar maths and physics course load, tend to assign less homework and reading outside of class, which could also be associated with students’ limited learning. In contrast to students in China, students in India and Russia may exhibit gains because they are held accountable—through regular assessment and risk of failure—for learning skills.

This is actually true. Students in China rarely get kicked out.
 

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
non paywalled:

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Its in paragraph containing:



This is actually true. Students in China rarely get kicked out.
This is particularly interesting because the bottom of class in university has a disproportionately high rate of producing creative and successful individuals, which could explain a lot about China's dominance of leading edge research.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think what @GZDRefugee says many people are struggling with is partially right. The businesses that I believe are struggling the most are small stationary retail stores (so-called middleman, e.g. that's the reason for Indonesia recently banned Temu, etc.) A lot of people did get maybe not very wealthy but good enough doing trade business to live a comfortable life. Suddenly they were wiped out by the internet era Taobao, Pinduoduo, Douyin internet stores. The retail business went from factory -> middleman-> customer to almost factory -> customer

Why buy from a stationary shop which is more expensive if you can order online cheaper?

You can see a huge amount of empty stores now in China as everything went to the internet. And yes that's how has China as a factory of the world, changed so fast, for the vast majority of people it is a good thing, cause they get cheaper things, with delivery to their houses.

Now that middlemen are getting wiped out, they need to find other ways for the live.

In the West still middleman is still the king, it's good chunk of the economy, however, it will also change sooner or later.
in the US there are indeed still middleman - but not for consumers. There's middlemen for things like B2B distribution, real estate, car dealerships, healthcare, insurance, etc that are mandatory to the economy and aren't great experiences.

Businesses that actually face consumers are closing everywhere.

Restaurants:

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Banks:

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Even pharmacies are closing despite sky high pharmaceutical costs:

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