Military FAQ thread

[Gollevainen]

Well in here clear firinglines that are over 500 meters are actually quite rare...But thats just the difference between our systems and US...I did'n find the AK anyway inaccurate but then again I never have shot with M-16 so I really cannot compare.

But as we opened this road, I like to ask this about US methods...our drillinstructors alwaýs teached us that we are not allowed to use the rapidfire mode unless in extreme situations. If you accidentaly switched over it you get load of shit upon you...The instructors used to say that "this isen't any US army, we cannot afford to waste the ammunitions". So what I'm asking is that how does US army take a stand to rapidfire mode? Are the soldiers engouraged to do so or is this just a myth of us?

 

[grahamsh]

Just to chip in, if I may, as a former UK Territorial Army (i.e. part-time reserve comparable to the National Guard) infantryman from the 1980s (ancient history I know but anyway)...I heard consistent tales about the US 5.56mm round having poor "knock-down" characteristics, ditto actually the 5.56mm round in the new British SA-80 (don't start me on that....)

In those days we had the L1A1 SLR, 7.62mm NATO round - if hit by that you went down and stayed down (never tried it myself on a live target, glad to say was never actually deployed for real, but this was what our instructors told us and what we saw demonstrated on (live) sheep - and having seen some "after-action" photos of Falklands War casualties, theirs and ours, I can believe it). Great piece of kit the SLR.

I can sympathise with our Finnish colleague's comments about auto vs single shot fire - the SLR was single shot only in the version we used. But that encouraged us to be better shots, rather than relying on weight of fire. The US does have a tendency, with all due respect to any US colleagues, to do a certain amount of "reconnaissance by fire".

In terms of Utelore's point of ranges, we qualified at 100m, 200m and 300m - the SLR was sighted to 600m (from memory) but rare, as folks say, to get a clear line of sight at that range (albeit we were working in Western Europe not the desert). Further out we could use our section's MGs of course (GPMG or LMG (the old WW2 period Bren Gun rechambered for 7.62mm NATO)).

GPMG (A.K.A. Gimpy as they were effectively known) is a cracking gun if you get the chance to fire it live

My modern mil knowledge is way outta date, but British Army/NATO/Sovs c. 1980s and some 1990s, ask away !

 

[Gollevainen]

No need to be ashamed of your backround, we have a policy that everyone having any military experience are entitled to Vipmember status. So send a PM to Dongfeng or Webmaster and tell them a brief introduction of yourself...

 

[grahamsh]

Not ashamed in the slightest just a bit long in the tooth and not up to speed on the modern stuff (kit wise anyway). Still, mililtary life is military life whatever the period...

I did smile at your post about dealing with, ah, bodily functions in the field. British Army 1980 vintage issue toilet paper was horrible stuff and the cogniscenti always took nice soft civvie paper out on exercise with them (wrapped up in a plastic bag so it did not get wet of course ) - along with curry powder, decent coffee, extra choc bars and all the other things that make life in the boondooks slightly more enjoyable.

 

[Gollevainen]

extra choc bars

Extra? So the issued you choc bars from the "firm"? We didn't have that privileg (aside one or two occasion), we only had box of rousins which was quite nasty joke from the superiors as rousins have a habbit of increase you intestive activity...

 

[grahamsh]

This is all slightly offtopic ff but anyway Napoleon did say an army marches on its stomach.... and he knew what he was talking about !

Sure, one choc bar a day in the 24 ration packs we used to get for exercises Sometimes, however, the choc bars were a brand that had been off the civilian market for several years - 'cos the rat packs had a shelflife of several years and the oldest ones were always used for exercises, especially for the TA (the new ones being warstocks).

Yeah we got raisins and fruit too sometimes. Probably for the same reasons

Wonder what sort of rations the PLA ground forces get ?

 

[utelore]

You bet Golly, The Drill sgts would Kick our Ass if we ever went to three round burst as The M-16A2 was not full auto. However I think the U.S is kind of going back to Huge amounts of fire being sent downrange as demostrated in Iraq because of the dense urban enviroments. I think basic rifleman skills are still being taught in boot camp to a high degree but once on the battle field things change a bit. I can say for busting up cinderblock houses the 7.62mm on full auto with a bit of .50 works best.

 

[grahamsh]

The Gimpy does a nice job of chopping through brick walls as well...

However, maybe the serious point here (and my experience was (thankfully) pure training while I note from elsewhere on the site that Utelore has done the stuff in GW1) is that peacetime/training prudence with ammo disappears when the bad guys are putting live ones your direction...

 

[isthvan]

The Gimpy does a nice job of chopping through brick walls as well...

However, maybe the serious point here (and my experience was (thankfully) pure training while I note from elsewhere on the site that Utelore has done the stuff in GW1) is that peacetime/training prudence with ammo disappears when the bad guys are putting live ones your direction...

Quite agreed… 90% of my drill sargents had war experience.

As MP we mostly used 9mm SMG and handguns and were trained to shoot quick single shots at targets because we were trained for urban warfare, CQB, VIP protection etc…
Point was to kill target quickly without hurting civilians.

But when we were in woods doing counter insurgency training we were told that if you ever were caught in ambush we should joust “spray and pray”, disengage as quickly as we can, regroup and came back to kick ass…
We were told that there are some situations where your marksmanship doesn’t worth a shit and only way you can survive is to shoot as many bullets as you can.

As for AK we used ex. Yu M70 rifle and it was quite accurate up to 300m. I also had opportunity to use good old German G3 and I joust love that gun. Unbelievable accurate rifle; up to 600m whit mechanical sight and up to 800-900m whit optics.
But like I said as MP we were primary trained to use weapons up to 100m…

 

[Gollevainen]

Well we artillerists had only nomical rifletraining, to quote our drill instructors "with no disrespect to infantry warfare, but now we move to the REAL guns" when we started our artillery training. We only went to the firing ranges at the very begining and the near end of our service time...