Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

adeptitus said:

Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC-1 fighter:

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Hmm... sounds interesting... but I thought the Pakistani had 50% stake in the JF-17/ FC-1 project? So... does Argentine actually also need clearance from Pakistan before the deal could falls through?

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

rhino123 said:

Hmm... sounds interesting... but I thought the Pakistani had 50% stake in the JF-17/ FC-1 project? So... does Argentine actually also need clearance from Pakistan before the deal could falls through?

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No clearance needed, but the profit will have to be shared 50:50

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

As previously reported in this thread:
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-armed-forces/argentina-evaluating-z-11-helicopter-3313.html

Argentina had successfully negotiated for local production of 40 x Z-11 helicopters. Assembly started in 2012:


So the JF-17's negotiation has a good precedent. IMO China is probably more flexible with tech transfers and local assembly for smaller batch orders.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

antiterror13 said:

No clearance needed, but the profit will have to be shared 50:50

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Indeed. But I would also think it only works for selling of the aircraft. However, regarding transfer of tech... now that is something that is more or less in the grey area. Since Pakistan owned 50% of the entire project, then they should also have a say to which country the technology used in the JF-17 can be transfered to.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

rhino123 said:

Indeed. But I would also think it only works for selling of the aircraft. However, regarding transfer of tech... now that is something that is more or less in the grey area. Since Pakistan owned 50% of the entire project, then they should also have a say to which country the technology used in the JF-17 can be transfered to.

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It could be that Argentina would be assembling aircraft from knock-down kits, meaning final assembly only.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

rhino123 said:

Indeed. But I would also think it only works for selling of the aircraft. However, regarding transfer of tech... now that is something that is more or less in the grey area. Since Pakistan owned 50% of the entire project, then they should also have a say to which country the technology used in the JF-17 can be transfered to.

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I am not aware of any original Pakistani content on the JF17 that they would have proprietary rights to. The 50/50 share is only in terms of initial investment and profit share. Pakistan does not have any exclusive rights to any of the technology on the JF17.

Obviously, if China was offering to sell the JF17 to India, Pakistan can probably veto that deal because of their share of the project, but since all the technology on the JF17 are Chinese, if they are ok with the customer, that new customer will have access to all the options that Pakistan has with the exception of any 3rd party munitions of equipment Pakistan might have installed themselves.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Pointblank said:

It could be that Argentina would be assembling aircraft from knock-down kits, meaning final assembly only.

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I do not think so, Argentina`s FADEA is basicly the same company that makes the IA-63 Pampa, however after 1982, Argentina has an arms Embargo by NATO, Brazil has not, but Argentina has the need to adquiere some updated tech transfers, the Pampa has basicly Dornier tech transfers, Argentina will very likely ask China for several tech transfers on the JF-17, it will depend in what they agree, but i doubt Argentina will simply settle on assembling, they need more than that, and Brazil is going for almost full transfer of tech on its F-X project, Argentina will go for something similar

[video=youtube;hzevGJCXcCU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzevGJCXcCU[/video]

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

MiG-29 said:

I do not think so, Argentina`s FADEA is basicly the same company that makes the IA-63 Pampa, however after 1982, Argentina has an arms Embargo by NATO, Brazil has not, but Argentina has the need to adquiere some updated tech transfers, the Pampa has basicly Dornier tech transfers, Argentina will very likely ask China for several tech transfers on the JF-17, it will depend in what they agree, but i doubt Argentina will simply settle on assembling, they need more than that, and Brazil is going for almost full transfer of tech on its F-X project, Argentina will go for something similar

[video=youtube;hzevGJCXcCU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzevGJCXcCU[/video]

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Difference is that Brazil is willing to pay for and has the ability to pay for tech transfer, while Argentina doesn't have the ability to pay for tech transfer. Argentina is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy right now, and I think any supplier is fully aware of that fact and knows what leverage they have over Argentina.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Pointblank said:

Difference is that Brazil is willing to pay for and has the ability to pay for tech transfer, while Argentina doesn't have the ability to pay for tech transfer. Argentina is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy right now, and I think any supplier is fully aware of that fact and knows what leverage they have over Argentina.

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Argentina is not like that, Argentina is in fact in per capita much better than Brazil in terms of HDI and its economy grows even at higher rates.

Argentina GDP Annual Growth RateThe Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Argentina expanded 3 percent in the first quarter of 2013 over the same quarter of the previous year. GDP Annual Growth Rate in Argentina is reported by the Instituto Nacional de Estadista. Historically, from 1994 until 2013, Argentina GDP Annual Growth Rate averaged 3.9 Percent reaching an all time high of 11.8 Percent in June of 2010 and a record low of -16.3 Percent in March of 2002. Argentina is the third largest economy in Latin America.


The rank of Argentina’s HDI for 2011 based on data available in 2012 and methods used in 2012 was– 44
out of 187 countries.


The current military spending in Latino America only is justified if economic and social development agrees with it.
Between 1980 and 2012 Brazil's HDI rose by 1.2% annually from 0.522 to 0.730 today, which gives the country a rank of 85 out of 187 countries with comparable



Argentina however is not a nation desperate in buying weapons while some people still has economic harships in Argentina, can they afford Rafales? yes they can, however is not in their mind set to spend such amount of money in weapons as other nations do.
Argentina is simply thinking right if you spend in weapons add some technology to your knowlegde.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

MiG-29 said:

Argentina is not like that, Argentina is in fact in per capita much better than Brazil in terms of HDI and its economy grows even at higher rates.

Argentina GDP Annual Growth RateThe Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Argentina expanded 3 percent in the first quarter of 2013 over the same quarter of the previous year. GDP Annual Growth Rate in Argentina is reported by the Instituto Nacional de Estadista. Historically, from 1994 until 2013, Argentina GDP Annual Growth Rate averaged 3.9 Percent reaching an all time high of 11.8 Percent in June of 2010 and a record low of -16.3 Percent in March of 2002. Argentina is the third largest economy in Latin America.

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The rank of Argentina’s HDI for 2011 based on data available in 2012 and methods used in 2012 was– 44
out of 187 countries.

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The current military spending in Latino America only is justified if economic and social development agrees with it.
Between 1980 and 2012 Brazil's HDI rose by 1.2% annually from 0.522 to 0.730 today, which gives the country a rank of 85 out of 187 countries with comparable

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Argentina however is not a nation desperate in buying weapons while some people still has economic harships in Argentina, can they afford Rafales? yes they can, however is not in their mind set to spend such amount of money in weapons as other nations do.
Argentina is simply thinking right if you spend in weapons add some technology to your knowlegde.

Click to expand...

Actually, the IMF has censured Argentina (the first time it has done that since 1954, and the second country to be censured by the IMF, the first being Czechoslovakia) for blatantly false inflation and economic growth statistics a few months ago:

And there are some economists that believe Argentina doctored GDP numbers as well... by 2%.

And Argentina is looking at yet another IMF bailout as Argentina's central bank reserves are shrinking rapidly; JPMorgan Chase has stated that Argentina's central back reserves will drop to $37.5 billion dollars by the end of this year. With the IMF's censure of Argentina, it could lead to Argentina being kicked out of the IMF, and with Argentine access to international lenders severely restricted, Argentina is going to be facing a very messy default... again.