Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

Thank you for your post. But as mentioned on previous postings on this thread the main protagonist would be Chile and its force of 48 F-16 (12 new and 36 from Holland). Additional please refrain from dragging the topic into a Malvinas/Falklands debate. I’ve already had to stop them several times in this thread. The topic at had is what aircraft would be a good replacement for the retired Mirage III and V.Thanks

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The UK has a happy indisplaceable force on the Falklands. Argentina has a number of conflicts and pushing the issue with the UK in a military way is the last part on the long list of what can be achieved with more military capability at a staggering cost. It would probably need direct involvement of the Chinese Navy with multiple aircraft carriers on Argentina's side, after they learned solving island disputes in their home waters.
At the moment it's about defending territorial claims in the utmost south of America in a barely hospitable land with very limited logistics. That's the area of possible armed conflict with Chile that military outspends Argentina and is aligned with the UK that could be involved as part of an attacking force if they feel such an act serves their interests as well.
Argentina has a small economic core region around Buenos Aires and a large little inhabited resource rich hinterland shell. There are two possible modes, concentrate on defending the core hardcore and have a soft shell or make the shell much tougher with less spending on hardening the core. No threat to the core is perceived and the money spent needs to be in relation to the purpose of disputing a small area that belongs to the shell of the most hinterlandish hinterland. Furthermore, any aircraft there need to be supplied to operate. Can you keep the suggested stuff operational, who does it already and how does it work out for them?

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Shouldn't the basis of this discussion be how much money does Argentina have to spend and how many planes does Argentina expect to get for that sum ? There is no sense talking about Ferrari's and Lamborghini's if a person only has 30000 $ to spend on a new car.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Both Kurt and Franklin are absolutely correct in there statements. The main threat to Argentina is Chile and the Oil/Mineral rich provinces to the south. As mentioned by Kurt previously, this area would be a low density conflict area suitable for highly mobile units performing strike and ambush type operations. These units would also utilize UAvs and COIN aircraft. Granted this still does not relieve the need for the Army group in the south (these are the better trained forces) and the need for agile combat aircraft to counter the F-16 threat. As Franklin also point out (we’ve touched on this in previous postings) Argentina is not a viable nation to receive credit for arms purchases. That is unless it can strike a deal to exchange food commodities as partial payment. This means that any arms purchase would have to be use (second hand equipment). And interesting fact is that the nation is sitting in $US42Bnin hard currency and metals.

Additionally the weather conditions in southern Argentina are similar as to what would be experiences in Scandinavia, Russia, and Canada, this is cold, snow, and wind.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Franklin said:

Shouldn't the basis of this discussion be how much money does Argentina have to spend and how many planes does Argentina expect to get for that sum ? There is no sense talking about Ferrari's and Lamborghini's if a person only has 30000 $ to spend on a new car.

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Excellent point. This means that any arms purchase would have to be used second hand equipment. This has been the modus operandi of most South America nations

Re: New life to older aircraft

That is some inspirational stuff. Never knew that opinions could be this varied. Thanks for all the enthusiasm to offer such helpful information here.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

asif iqbal said:

They could buy these jets but it still wouldn't change the balance of power that the Royal Navy holds today's

Recently Royal Navy did a excersize which involved a Eurofighter Typhoon simulating a attack on a surface vessel, that surface vessel was the Type 45 DDG the wolds most advanced air defence destroyer, only only did the Type 45 detect, intercept and shot down the incoming simulated anti-ship missile it also engaged the aircraft which launched it, and in my opinion the Typhoon is second only to the F22 Raptor

Type 45 has a high volume search capability that can detect anything within a 450km radius and even into outer space, it is said that if someone threw a tennis ball up in the air from 20km away Type 45 would see it

HMS Daring worked his year with USS Carl Vinson and USS Abraham Lincoln 2 of USN nuclear aircraft carriers, the captains of the carrier were astonished at Type 45 capability which could also act as a command ship, they could call on this DDG if a Iran launched a saturation missile attack because Type 45 could work with USN carrier strike groups one and nine

Today a single Type 45 working all on its own can protect the entire Falklands islands while maintaining air defence umbrella over itself and other escorting ships, sure we have only 6 but really that is all what we will ever need

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Not need think, that british type 45 more powerfull then old british Sheffield class destroyers.
I see results testing SAM PAAMS from destoyers. No one supersonic targets not intercept. During last testing system 11 october 2012 year ship not fire missiles aganst targets.
Really test firings with launch missiles against really targets:
May 1996 - intercept target with speed 270 m/s in level 1000 meters
April 1997 - intercept target "C-22" with speed 800 km/h in level 10 meters
November 1997 - intercept terget with speed 800 km/h
December 1997 - intercept target missele "Exocet"(training version). Speed is 800 km/h. After it intercept target "C-22" with speed 900 km/h in level 11000 meters
2001 - intercept target with speed 1000 km/h
2004 - 3 firing against targets with speed 800 km/h
7 october 2010 - intercept target with speed 740 km/h

All targets was hit, but all target was subsonic. Against supersonic targets new british destroyers defenceless. So if Argentina buy "MiG-29" wish ASM "Kh-31A", so british Type 45 can not defend himself.
Really our old destroyers "Sovremenny" class can intersept targets with speed 2500 km/h in early 1980 years for example.

If Argentina use "A-4" planes with free fall bombs - type 45 can defend himself. But agains modern weapons ship defenceless. I can say, that Iran and DPRK have SSM what can easy hit type 45 also. So all missiles with speed 1100 km/h and more can not intercept by type 45 ship. 1 "MiG-29" with "Kh-31A" easy can hit this ship.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Kurt said:

Instead of national slander, please name which company and which component is responsible and
show the evidence leading to such a conclusion.

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As you understand I not know who manufacturing spare parts for another crush "MiG-27". I'm live in Russia and Idian government not tell me what spare parts was use in crash planes. So I can not say name Indian company what made low quality spare parts.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Well, I think that we have taken this subject as far as it will go. As much as it would be nice to see the FAA flying the J-20, however I believe that it is an impossibility. As many of you have suggested the purchase of the J-10 as the backbone of the fighter force,would also be a astep in the right direction. This would be a good option and a potential to acquire more J-10Bs and Cs as the aircraft matures. However, sadly I see the FAA retiring the Mirage fleet with no replacement. The remaining A-4AR are already 20-years old and will also need replacement in the coming decade.
With Argentina aligning itself with Venezuela the probability of acquiring USA aircraft has evaporated and this leaves only the French, Chinese and the Russians. The French aircraft are now out of reach economically for Argentina and the possibility of China selling J-10s to non-ally seams equally unlikely. This potentially just leaves the Russians.
Hopefully FAA will acquire some Su-27 as the Venezuelan air force has, or for less money the MiG-29 upgraded to SMT as they have in Peru.
In closing I would like to thank all the forum members that contributed their opinions and knowledge to this subject. It has been an interesting thread.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

Well, I think that we have taken this subject as far as it will go. As much as it would be nice to see the FAA flying the J-20, however I believe that it is an impossibility. As many of you have suggested the purchase of the J-10 as the backbone of the fighter force,would also be a astep in the right direction. This would be a good option and a potential to acquire more J-10Bs and Cs as the aircraft matures. However, sadly I see the FAA retiring the Mirage fleet with no replacement. The remaining A-4AR are already 20-years old and will also need replacement in the coming decade.
With Argentina aligning itself with Venezuela the probability of acquiring USA aircraft has evaporated and this leaves only the French, Chinese and the Russians. The French aircraft are now out of reach economically for Argentina and the possibility of China selling J-10s to non-ally seams equally unlikely. This potentially just leaves the Russians.
Hopefully FAA will acquire some Su-27 as the Venezuelan air force has, or for less money the MiG-29 upgraded to SMT as they have in Peru.
In closing I would like to thank all the forum members that contributed their opinions and knowledge to this subject. It has been an interesting thread.

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I agree, i think Argentina can buy Chinese trainers, French helos, Russian MiG-29s or even Su-35s.

In my opinion should do like Brazil, not too left like Chavez, not too right like Mexico.

Get from China airliners, Y-20s or Z-9s, from France Tiger Helicopters or Mi-24s from Russia.

If Argentina gets something should be with tech transfer like Brazil does.

Mexico Usually gets Russian and western equipment.

in Mexico you have ERJ-145 AWACs along side E-2s and An-26s.

Argentina should get Yak-130s with tech transfers or Su-35s, in fact in my opinion Russian fighters are the best for Argentina since today Russia sells aircraft to many latin american nation without any political string attached.

Peru for example is not a Russian ally but buys Russian aircraft, if you go all the way left, you can get J-10s but economically is a bad idea.
Since it will mean Argentina has gone left and will be seen as a none western ally and i doubt China will sell you J-10s because they know if the goverment changes in Argentina those J-10s might be later being inspected by US experts if Argentina returns as a Western ally back.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC-1 fighter: