Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

Petrolicious88 said:

China has had the capability to mass bomb Taiwan for a long time. That is not that hard if the military wants to conduct that kind of operation. Russia can do that in Syria with the dumb bombs. You don't even need good intel for it. You see a bridge you bomb it.

BUT it's the geopolitical and socioeconomic factors that have deterred China. People on this forum speak of killing 100,000, 200,000, people as if it's kind mercy.

And Taiwan may not be bombed into submission just as England wasn't in WWII despite systematic carpet bombing by the Germans. And it will be live streamed globally. The risk of failure, of international condemnation (and china does care about its global image), and of economic embargo, sanctions, and socioeconomic damages to China's own development plan.

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Again, let me tell you this for the upmtenth time, if God forbid, Taiwanese separatists believe the nonsense you spewed then it would be daring enough to declare independence, we'll see then who's right between your western assumptions (you can't seem to grasp the historical and raw emotional connection Taiwan has with all Chinese people) and the contentions I made against your argument. In my view, you think your views on Taiwan has a lot more mileage or sway even though you're neither Taiwanese, lived in Taiwan, let alone of Chinese descent. Which is why I find some of your views highly condescending, patronizing, most of all smug to the point that your views come across belligerent.

For example, you're historical comparison is laughably comatosed and don't share the level of INTERNAL unresolved CIVIL WAR between the fascist (KMT and Commies) since Germany VS British were about territorial Conquest of another SOVEREIGN STATE therefore aren't analogous to the Chinese INTERNAL CONFLICT. The only similarity between Britain and Germany was that they're both white people and their respective monarchs were relatives - sexing each other GOT style.

I disrespectfull asked, What does your dumb ass country in EU or elsewhere have to do with Taiwan from historical standpoint, cultural, etc.. You people will not dictate to China what can't and must not be done with respect to our territorial integrity.

Ukraine isn't Taiwan period, and China isn't Russia, any comparisons being made are done so with insidious interest and are intentional to confuse the already dumb mother firecrackers in the west, led by America.

FriedButter said:

How much would history had changed if the Luftwaffe overwhelmed the RAF and destroyed them.

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I would argue that the Luftwaffe's true failure was over the English channel, not England itself. The real mistake they made was strategic, not operational: They chose the wrong goal.

Trying to destroy the RAF in the opening phase of the war was beyond the Luftwaffe's capability. What Germany should've done was focus on overwhelming the Royal Navy, instead of the RAF. That's an objective which the Luftwaffe could have accomplished. If they focused on the same level of anti-shipping capability and training as Japan, they would've weakened the Royal Navy enough to open a path through the channel. It would've been practically impossible for the RAF to protect their Navy against the Luftwaffe's hit and run attacks.

At that point, all they would have needed was Local Air Superiority, not Air Supremacy. That is something the Luftwaffe could have managed, with their volume + range. This would've given them a path through the channel, and once the Wehrmacht had made landfall on English shores, the Luftwaffe would have been able to provide air cover to the Heer, until the panzers rolled straight over their airbases and harbors.

Bellum_Romanum said:

Again, let me tell you this for the upmtenth time, if God forbid, Taiwanese separatists believe the nonsense you spewed then it would be daring enough to declare independence, we'll see then who's right between your western assumptions (you can't seem to grasp the historical and raw emotional connection Taiwan has with all Chinese people) and the contentions I made against your argument. In my view, you think your views on Taiwan has a lot more mileage or sway even though you're neither Taiwanese, lived in Taiwan, let alone of Chinese descent. Which is why I find some of your views highly condescending, patronizing, most of all smug to the point that your views come across belligerent.

For example, you're historical comparison is laughably comatosed and don't share the level of INTERNAL unresolved CIVIL WAR between the fascist (KMT and Commies) since Germany VS British were about territorial Conquest of another SOVEREIGN STATE therefore aren't analogous to the Chinese INTERNAL CONFLICT. The only similarity between Britain and Germany was that they're both white people and their respective monarchs were relatives - sexing each other GOT style.

I disrespectfull asked, What does your dumb ass country in EU or elsewhere have to do with Taiwan from historical standpoint, cultural, etc.. You people will not dictate to China what can't and must not be done with respect to our territorial integrity.

Ukraine isn't Taiwan period, and China isn't Russia, any comparisons being made are done so with insidious interest and are intentional to confuse the already dumb mother firecrackers in the west, led by America.

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B you always get fired up over this. And talk about who’s entitled to talk based on who’s Chinese or not, lol. Relax. Listen to some jay chou. You don’t agree with my opinions, that’s cool. None of it was condescending.

Lets leave the Taiwan issue aside for a moment. This will be the one of the three most important wars that will influence the PLA. The other two are the Gulf War of 1991 and the Iraq War of 2003. The other two shows how it should be done this war shows how its not to be done. No doubt this war will expose some of the weaknesses in the Chinese military and the necessary changes will be made on the structual, doctrinal and material levels in the coming years. This war will help to make the PLA stronger as its helps to confront some of the PLA's own short comings.

But the open question remains is how strategically astute are the PLA top commanders and how tactically versatile the lower officers are. You can have the best weapons and the best trained and motivated troops but if your tactics and strategy sucks you still end up on the loosing side.

China has forged a formidable weapon in the PLA but now the question is how well can China wield that weapon.

Petrolicious88 said:

London was literally bombed to ashes, it did not surrender. Again, China can militarily defeat Taiwan with ease yesterday. Thats not the point. It has always been the geopolitical and socioeconomic factors that have deterred AR.

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Please British still has the Royal Navy to prevent any invasion forces coming across the English Channel, while the Taiwanese regime doesn't have anything near that to prevent the PLAN from blockading them. The point is the West doesn't want to see China has it's own Taiwan island back due to the factor it would diminish the west control much of the Pacific.

Equation said:

Please British still has the Royal Navy to prevent any invasion forces coming across the English Channel, while the Taiwanese regime doesn't have anything near that to prevent the PLAN from blockading them. The point is the West doesn't want to see China has it's own Taiwan island back due to the factor it would diminish the west control much of the Pacific.

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Not true
Taiwan has the US navy..... Maybe.

Franklin said:

But the open question remains is how strategically astute are the PLA top commanders and how tactically versatile the lower officers are. You can have the best weapons and the best trained and motivated troops but if your tactics and strategy sucks you still end up on the loosing side.

China has forged a formidable weapon in the PLA but now the question is how well can China wield that weapon.

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You want to see the value of a military force, we should largely pay attention to the value of PLA captains. The captain combines the experience of more than a decade of active service with the physical vigor that comes from his relative youth. He knows in depth the doctrine of use of his weapon and already understands, in a holistic way, the interaction that must exist between all specialties of the land force and between it and the other armed forces and state agencies.

The captain is the leader who receives, in the subunits of the troop, young lieutenants and sergeants, recently graduated from training schools. He is the immediate boss who will establish affective bonds with these soldiers, bonds that will favor a process of interpersonal influence that will complement the formation of leaders of small fractions and young officers. It will serve as a mirror for them to understand, in practice, the challenges and characteristics of the military profession.

Also as sub-unit commanders, it is the captains who receive, every year, the young conscripts who present themselves for the fulfillment of mandatory military service. In this role, they are the face of the army to the recruits' families. Their actions and decisions, their conduct and example, will translate to the local society the experience of those young people in the land force.

It is the captains who occupy most of the positions in the general staff of the units. They make plans happen, transforming their commanders' intentions into actions. They advise with loyalty and intellectual discipline. Assess the risks involved. They know the legislation that supports the actions and limits the use of force. They follow the course of actions by being present in the area of operations.

A study would have to be carried out from the academic training of captains in training schools to assessing the leadership capacity of captains in military units.

Geneva Convention? More like Geneva Suggestion~ ayy lmao gottem.

Seriously though, trying to put ethical restraints on war (a fundamentally unethical act) is fucking stupid. You do what is necessary to win, not brutalize the enemy without reason.

If your enemy is down, you don't kick him. That's needlessly cruel and inefficient. You finish him off so he never gets up again.

Franklin said:

Lets leave the Taiwan issue aside for a moment. This will be the one of the three most important wars that will influence the PLA. The other two are the Gulf War of 1991 and the Iraq War of 2003. The other two shows how it should be done this war shows how its not to be done. No doubt this war will expose some of the weaknesses in the Chinese military and the necessary changes will be made on the structual, doctrinal and material levels in the coming years. This war will help to make the PLA stronger as its helps to confront some of the PLA's own short comings.

But the open question remains is how strategically astute are the PLA top commanders and how tactically versatile the lower officers are. You can have the best weapons and the best trained and motivated troops but if your tactics and strategy sucks you still end up on the loosing side.

China has forged a formidable weapon in the PLA but now the question is how well can China wield that weapon.

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Validity of drone and missile warfare seems to be confirmed at least.

An often overlooked aspect since you brought up the Gulf war was also the human intelligence factor... Saddam was an American client leader turned rogue, with Americans having high or even total insight on every level of Iraq due to retaining spies, backdoors etc. In effect, the gulf war was almost a de facto domestic US conflict, between the Empire's capital and a wayward border territory.

Discussion about government spies and backdoors within ROC is usually glossed over. The rebels themselves do not want to lose even more sleep over things they can't really affect, and loyalists don't like to talk about it because relying on spies seems like a sign of weakness. But in reality, having people on the ground that inform about rebel leader movements, sabotage communication from within etc. could be highly critical.

MortyandRick said:

Not true
Taiwan has the US navy..... Maybe.

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That's not their very own navy. No American parents would want their sons and daughters to die from a conflict thousands of miles away from home for no good reason. That fact has been lost in many Taiwan strait so called experts, or at least they're too afraid to bring it up in any debate.