Ladakh Flash Point

lgnxz said:

Really, you want to cope and go back to the 1962 war comparison again??

Please, withdrawal doesn't matter. PLA has voluntarily withdrew itself much further on many occasions despite winning the battle way harder, general consensus still consider it to be the victor. How hard is it for you to grasp this holy moly...?

You admit that June 15 is a win for China, that should be the end of the matter. LAC has changed (or to be more precise, the false perception from India has been busted, China's perception has always been correct and never changes), that's literally it. Noone is challenging you about disengagement that happened.

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We are talking about the standoff as a whole here. If you want to keep going back to one battle, then fine, enjoy your win.

however, the facts at the end speak for themselves. The lac is exactly where it was before 2020, and China failed to permanently capture any territory previously controlled by India.

Xsizor said:

Good. So that means India lost territory as LAC is now shifted to the bend. Old PP14 isn't the new PP14.

Indian government also lied to its people and media. Great.

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Do you even read your own sources? Brig. RJS said the lac is about a km from the lac. Although I disagree it is that far, google cleearly shows it is south of the bend. So has almost every other image.

By now you should know pp14 is the last point Indian soldiers patrolled to. That is what all the pps are. In parts of the lac, they are on or short of the lac, in other parts, they are beyond it. Galwan is one of the places in the former category, while depsang is among the latter. In Depsang and Pangong, some of the pps are in areas China has been controlling since 1962.

Look at the satellite images I posted, and compare them to the what is shown on google earth. You can get a good idea of the are that way, and the recent situation.

And the reason why it can't patrol certain areas(specifically in Depsang and Pangong) is because they have been controlled by CHina since 1962. India also blocks China from patrolling its claims in Pangong and Depsang, so by your logic, China lost territory.

twineedle said:

And the maps that almost every Indian and non-Indian source has used

BTW, the bend is between 5-6 km from the mouth, as Brig RJS said.

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Brig RJS claim :




And ofcourse the "5 to 6 km"

twineedle said:

Do you even read your own sources? Brig. RJS said the lac is about a km from the lac. Although I disagree it is that far, google cleearly shows it is south of the bend. So has almost every other image.


And the reason why it can't patrol certain areas(specifically in Depsang and Pangong) is because they have been controlled by CHina since 1962. India also blocks China from patrolling its claims in Pangong and Depsang, so by your logic, China lost territory.

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Bold 1: Ignoring the slip up there




Bold 2: Factually wrong. China never settled down to the positions it gained in that war. It pulled back and settled on regions it had geographical advantages.

Going back to Brig RJS.

Indian Army’s patrolling point (patrolling limit), known as PP14 since the 90s, lies 5 to 6 kilometres from the confluence of Shyok and Galwan rivers.

From the article itself -

Brig RJS says himself he is not sure of the exact location of pp14, and Shukla tries to spin that by claiming the maximum possible distance he mentioned. If it was 5 km, as he said was possible, then pp14 is exactly where google and the international media says it is , and where it has always been.

Unless Google, reuters, Al jazeera, BBC, etc. are all lying on behalf of the Indian gov. lol

Little do the Indians realize that by saying China was on its own territory the whole time during the Galwan confrontation, they basically accept the Chinese 1959 LAC line and therefore all the over 1000 square kilometers of territory China took back was rightfully their own. Bots like @twineedle spend so much time bickering back and forth by twisting minor details that they forget about the bigger picture lol.

twineedle said:

Brig RJS says himself he is not sure of the exact location of pp14, and Shukla tries to spin that by claiming the maximum possible distance he mentioned. If it was 5 km, as he said was possible, then pp14 is exactly where google and the international media says it is , and where it has always been.

Unless Google, reuters, Al jazeera, BBC, etc. are all lying on behalf of the Indian gov. lol

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Dude none of those news outlets care about specifics like PP14 or detailed topography. And all those outlets conclude that the PLA was indeed the one on the offense (as in occupying previously Indian controlled territory).

twineedle said:

Brig RJS says himself he is not sure of the exact location of pp14, and Shukla tries to spin that by claiming the maximum possible distance he mentioned. If it was 5 km, as he said was possible, then pp14 is exactly where google and the international media says it is , and where it has always been.

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“I have been there … I am very clear about that."​

Yes, our patrolling point lies well inside the LAC, by over one kilometre, perhaps two. According to Brig Dhillon, the actual LAC alignment in the recent conflict zone is as shown in the map below:




Seems like he is pretty sure of what he is talking about. You on the other hand is at a crossroads trying to defend your Modi party and an India in backstep.

Unless Indian government claims its original points, No external parties have any impetus to change or dissect it.

Refer previous posts.
This will be the finishing touch to Galwan.

Figaro said:

Little do the Indians realize that by saying China was on its own territory the whole time during the Galwan confrontation, they basically accept the Chinese 1959 LAC line and therefore all the over 1000 square kilometers of territory China took back was rightfully their own. Bots like @twineedle spend so much time bickering back and forth by twisting minor details that they forget about the bigger picture lol.

Dude none of those news outlets care about specifics like PP14 or detailed topography. And all those outlets conclude that the PLA was indeed the one on the offense (as in occupying previously Indian controlled territory).

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What are you ta;king about? China did temporarily build camps several hundred meters on the indian side, but later withdrew about 1 km behind the lac. It is China, not India that expanded its claim line.

And yes, Brig RJS has always been to the bend, since that has always been pp14. He specifically said it could be 5 km from the mouth. Obviously, he is unsure of the exact distance, which Shukl;a tried to spin to fit his narrative. That is why literally every mainstream indian and non indian source of various leanings, from the wire to CNN to Reuters to India Today to al Jazeera, show thepp14 that has always existed, not the one Shula made up.

twineedle said:

We are talking about the standoff as a whole here. If you want to keep going back to one battle, then fine, enjoy your win.

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And what wins did indian even manage to have lmao?? Any single battle? Better casualties? What a joke of a statement.

twineedle said:

however, the facts at the end speak for themselves. The lac is exactly where it was before 2020, and China failed to permanently capture any territory previously controlled by India.

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It doesn't though? The LAC clearly changes, like do you think in the old LAC in every region of contention China has its troops right at the very tip of the line? LAC is a matter of perception, always has been, and I think now both sides know that the old LAC on the picture that I last posted here is clearly outdated/false, otherwise your troop crossing the dividing river hasn't been kicked out for its aggression.

And of course you are still avoiding the 1962 comparison regarding withdrawal, because your argument easily crumbles like a cookie with that comparison.

twineedle said:

China did temporarily build camps several hundred meters on the indian side, but later withdrew about 1 km behind the lac.

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See, same thing. This is only 1km, literally who cares?? 1962 PLA withdrew 20km and the world sees it still as a chinese victory, dunno about the indians tho, always have been a special bunch, you are.