Ladakh Flash Point

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Bright Sword

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You may think they are increasing because you haven't had the misfortune of dealing with (or even noticing) their bollywood drama before... The Himalayas are a good sound barrier... But South Asians already have permanent ear damage, so we don't really notice it much anymore.
:) Don't usually use emojis but I will make an exception. Agree 100%
If it was only Bollywood it wouldn't be serious.
The biggest Indian delusion that is being screamed by hysterical news anchors , shouted, texted, memed, uploaded on Youtube, Yahoo, and the electronic media by various political IT cells is that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are a hoax and India should call Pakistan's bluff and invade. It is not known if this is a calculated ploy by external interests to actually have a nuclear showdown, but serious political observers ( and some news channels such as BBC Hindi ) point to a precedent during
the events of 27th February 2019. In retaliation for the Pakistani Stand off Weapons (SOW) attack which was in response to the Indian air strike the day before India was planning a conventional missile strike on Pakistan. When the CENTCOM got wind of the crisis they stepped in and pressured India to abort the strike. What is chilling about the whole affair is that Pakistan had learned of the impending strike and had made plans for an instant retaliation. According to reports (unconfirmed) India had planned strikes on 6 targets and Pakistan had targeted 18 sites in return. What is not known is if the Pakistanis knew the Indian strikes were to be conventional and if their response would be likewise. In a different era there was a public video conference between General Parvez Musharraf and General Ved Malik (both ex-Chief of Army staffs of their respective armed forces ) . General Malik appeared worried and he asked General Parvez Musharraf what happened to the confidence building measures and prevention of nuclear conflict proposal he had sent to Pakistan while both were serving at their respective positions. General Malik wanted to know if there was any possibility of taking up discussions on those proposals, and coming to an agreement to avert a nuclear showdown.
General Musharraf acknowledged that he had been informed about the CBM proposal received from India by the then FM but he had never received the document or the details so he could not answer General Malik's question.
General Malik looked even more worried as he handed the microphone back to the news anchor.
Are there any CBMs in place ?
There was no land conflict or a war of attrition but merely a very mild tit for tat exchange of airstrikes. It was always assumed by war gamers that a nuclear conflict in an India Pakistan scenario will only happen during an expanded conventional war if Pakistan's conventional front collapses, and there is an existential threat to Pakistan. Yet the February 2019 situation escalated almost instantly. Even President Trump then in a summit with the North Korean leader in Singapore expressed his fears in the middle of a press conference.,
Subsequently the Indian defense analysts confirmed the "escalation " .
Are there any measures to prevent the escalation would go all the way?
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
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A minor correction: China is five times bigger than India in terms of GDP: $14.4 trillion vs $2.9 trillion in 2019.
Yes. I was being generous to our member here and gave him the benefit of the doubt.
And even with this generous conservative figures, it'll still take 40 years for India to over take China to get on their way to super power dream. No wonder these Indians generate so much fantasy from their minds. Because reality is really a horrible place for them.
 

Figaro

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For Russian junk yes, such as submarines whose hatches don't close before submerging and helicopters that don't integrate with air defense "friend or foe"identification systems and get shot down by their own missiles.
Russia is unlikely to sell India the real stuff to challenge China, at least in the near future.
Russian friend or foe/aerial identification is an absolute joke. Finally they have something to challenge the Indians shooting down their own helicopter last year o_O .

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Mohsin77

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The biggest Indian delusion that is being screamed by hysterical news anchors , shouted, texted, memed, uploaded on Youtube, Yahoo, and the electronic media by various political IT cells is that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are a hoax and India should call Pakistan's bluff and invade. It is not known if this is a calculated ploy by external interests to actually have a nuclear showdown..

The only 'calculation' here is done by the indian media marketing departments to drive viewership and revenue from their domestic audience.

In retaliation for the Pakistani Stand off Weapons (SOW) attack which was in response to the Indian air strike the day before India was planning a conventional missile strike on Pakistan. When the CENTCOM got wind of the crisis they stepped in and pressured India to abort the strike. What is chilling about the whole affair is that Pakistan had learned of the impending strike and had made plans for an instant retaliation. According to reports (unconfirmed) India had planned strikes on 6 targets and Pakistan had targeted 18 sites in return. What is not known is if the Pakistanis knew the Indian strikes were to be conventional and if their response would be likewis

... This makes zero sense, just like a bollywood movie plot (so they probably hired the same writers.)

CENTCOM and Pakistan didn't even know that India was going to launch the Balakot strike. So how would they have found out about a much higher level state secret, such as an imminent ballistic missile strike? And if they did intercept this highly classified and time-sensitive intel with enough time to prepare a response, then India has way bigger problems. That means every decision that takes place in India's GHQ will get intercepted by both Pakistan and CENTCOM. In that case, India might as well hand over the keys to Pakistan right now, because we already own them.

The truth is much less dramatic, with an internal logic that's actually consistent: India was simply unprepared for an escalation. Case in point:

There was no land conflict or a war of attrition but merely a very mild tit for tat exchange of airstrikes. It was always assumed by war gamers that a nuclear conflict in an India Pakistan scenario will only happen during an expanded conventional war if Pakistan's conventional front collapses, and there is an existential threat to Pakistan. Yet the February 2019 situation escalated almost instantly. Even President Trump then in a summit with the North Korean leader in Singapore expressed his fears in the middle of a press conference.,
Subsequently the Indian defense analysts confirmed the "escalation " .
Are there any measures to prevent the escalation would go all the way?

You should just watch Praveen Sawhney's analysis videos. He has a number of them analyzing the Feb 27 incident and the issues relating to India's escalation ladder (or the lack thereof). And he is actually a credible source, unlike the sources you're worrying about.
 

Bright Sword

Junior Member
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You should just watch Praveen Sawhney's analysis videos. He has a number of them analyzing the Feb 27 incident and the issues relating to India's escalation ladder (or the lack thereof). And he is actually a credible source, unlike the sources you're worrying about.
You are 100% correct. I do watch Praveen Sawhney's videos within hours of their uploads.
The escalation is the basic question which could now happen in any scenario.
-Pakistan was aware of an impending air strike from India and in fact there were two press conferences by the military spokesperson warning of military action and retaliation as well as the prime minister himself warning of retaliation.
- Did Pakistan know exactly where the IAF would strike? Its hard to give a yes or no answer. Tactically there were feint attacks at 6 different points (Bahawalpur etc. ) and these were countered by PAF combat air patrols. The penetration was successful at Balakot and was countered and ( according to independent sources such as BBC ) no evidence of damage to the seminary ( the target) was observed.
CENTCOM does have the best monitoring assets in the region and in the Afghan war days Pakistan intelligence was shared between CENTCOM and PA. All conjecture but could Pakistan have been tipped off by CENTCOM?
My understand of Urdu is imperfect but the gist in the video below I get the impression that the Pakistani prime minister is talking about a missile threat. He may be exaggerating though.
 

Nobonita Barua

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That's paki prime minister?
Won'tsay this twice, but i am impressed. His posturing & speech is far better than china's ancient broken radio spokesperson "we firmly oppose..............".

My understand of Urdu is imperfect but the gist in the video below I get the impression that the Pakistani prime minister is talking about a missile threat. He may be exaggerating though.
Not sure about how Urdu sounds, but the language he is talking sounds hindi.

And again, from neutral point of view, by human nature itself, when you exaggerate something, you don't normally finish it in 1-2 lines
 

Bright Sword

Junior Member
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Not sure about how Urdu sounds, but the language he is talking sounds hindi.
He is speaking in Urdu
Urdu and Hindi sound similar like Italian and Spanish but they are two distinct languages with different scripts and completely different words.
Like Italian and Spanish the grammar and sentence structure is vaguely similar. I learned basic Urdu at school and can read and write the language fairly easily, but the language has developed advanced and changed dramatically over the years since Pakistan adopted it as a state and communications language. The outdated Urdu I learned would be similar to traditional Chinese vs the modern highly advanced Mandarin used in mainland China. The most remarkable aspect of Pakistan is that it has adopted one language extremely successfully as a communications language across the country which has a myriad dialects, and four distinct provisional languages. Urdu was once an Indian language widely used in parts of Northern India. In India Urdu has been ruthlessly stamped out for good by a bigoted state apparatus, But as you can see from the video it has flourished and grown in Pakistan.
 
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