Ladakh Flash Point

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Bill Blazo

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It is difficult to compare any two economies because there is way too much to compare. GDP is actually one of the most useless statistics, it's only good for a broad indication of the size of an economy. China's GDP is 13+ trillion dollars today, and US GDP is 20+ trillion. All that tells us is that China's economy is pretty big but not as big as the US. There are too many differences between these two countries.

China is unrivaled when it comes to manufacturing thanks to a few reasons, including its sophisticated logistics network and work culture, and large population which means a large talent pool, among other factors. But there are a lot of things that China doesn't do so well. For example, it's difficult to keep cash within China's borders, partly because of the archaic financial policies and also because rich people have better places to spend their money in. This makes it difficult for the government to collect the proper amount of taxes and fund state-owned programs, which is a big headache for a socialist government.

On the other hand, the US has a much more open financial system which makes it easy to move money to and from the country, which means people feel comfortable to keep cash inside US borders - but not the case for China. The US has some of the best talent in the world and that's not a coincidence, because US institutions have a well-deserved reputation for high-end R&D in certain areas. However, there is relatively little manufacturing in the US, because worker costs are very high and the country overall has been slow to adapt to some technologies that we take for granted in other parts of the world, e.g. digital payment. The extreme focus on private corporations has given US companies a larger competitive edge but also contributes to wealth inequality.

So it's impossible to use statistics alone to compare the Chinese economy with the US economy. The only way to get an accurate picture is to examine a lot of different aspects, so that you can consider qualititative factors as well, not just quantitative.

As for the US printing 500 billion dollars in 5 months (not 5 trillion, that's a stupid number), all of it is real. The USD is issued by US banks under the guidance of the US Federal Reserve, which is the central bank dictating fiscal policy. It has value because they say it has value, and also because everyone around the world loves trading in USD so everyone also says it has value. I also love USD because everyone else uses it, it's accepted everywhere, and it's easy to move around.

One of the bastions of the US economy its ability to print its own currency without consequences. That's how the US government never runs out of money. The US national debt is 26.7 trillion dollars, but do they need to care? No! As long as international trade continues to be conducted primarily in USD, they can print as many magic dollars as they want. Even though China is breaking away from the US dollar in some areas, like by trading oil and minerals in yuan, they are quietly collecting more USD at the same time, because USD is the most powerful currency today. It is very difficult to make international USD payments from China, because Chinese banks understand that today, if you have no USD you lose.

So I agree with mostly everything here, but I just wanted to elaborate on something that you mentioned about the futility of GDP. I absolutely agree that GDP is "one of the most useless statistics," but many people often don't realize the biggest reason why. On the left, you'll often hear it being criticized for several reasons. For example, it doesn't discriminate between good spending and bad spending. If a hurricane comes by and destroys a city, the cost of rebuilding is added to GDP. It also doesn't include the costs of ecological degradation, which may hamper future economic performance. Furthermore, it ignores vital social services like domestic housework. Finally, it says nothing about the distribution of wealth and income. A country can have a relatively high GDP per capita because its richest cohorts are spending lots of money while the rest of the population is in a miserable state. The best example of this is Equatorial Guinea in Africa; it has a high GDP per capita (because of oil), but most of its population is as poor as people in other Sub-Saharan African nations. I'd also add that GDP per capita, at certain levels, does not correlate absolutely (or even well) with certain quality of life factors. Cuba has the same life expectancy as the United States, but only one-tenth of its GDP per capita.

Anyway, those are the standard critiques, and I think most of them are pretty good (but not all). But there's a deeper critique, which you can easily find by searching online, related to the aggregation problem. What's the aggregation problem? It's the basic reason why "real" GDP cannot tell you anything about the "size" or the "productivity" of any economy, even before you get to problems with exchange rates and purchasing power. See
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if you want a nice and simple introduction to the issue.

Suppose I measure your height today in feet and inches. I get something, say 6 feet. Next week I measure your height again, but now I decide to pull a trick and I arbitrarily redefine the length scale for an inch, so that my inch is now two times bigger than the standard inch (5.08 cm versus 2.54). If I measure your height with this new tape measure, it will say that you're 3 feet! Of course, your actual height didn't change at all; the reported height only changed because I fiddled with the unit of measurement (so that the new inch covers twice as much distance, therefore I need half as many inches to cover your full height). What's the big idea? Empirical measurements only make sense when the units of measurement are stable over time and space. Scientists spend a lot of time carefully defining their units so that they're as stable as possible; physicists did this a couple of years ago by redefining some important units in terms of natural constants, ensuring that they wouldn't change at all.

Now let's get to economics, which doesn't really care about units. When economists measure GDP, they usually do so through several methods, such as the income approach (count all the income going to various economic agents) or the expenditure approach (count all the spending from various agents, aka consumer spending + government spending + trade balance + net business investment etc). What underlies all of these methods is that they're basically adding up sales. Another way of saying that is that they're adding up the prices of goods and services. Economists calculate GDP by aggregating through prices. What's the problem with that? Prices are unstable units of measurement, meaning they vary over time. Relative prices between goods and services also diverge. Why is that an issue? It's an issue because it means that prices cannot provide a fixed weight or standard to measure the "total value" of GDP. Depending on which prices from different years that you're using, you can get different total values of GDP. Economists adjust "nominal" GDP for inflation by holding prices from a particular base year constant (or they chain back to a particular reference year). This is how they get "real" GDP. But you'll get different values of real GDP depending on which base years you use, and the differences can be enormous.

For example, what was the real GDP of the US in 2014? If you use a reference year of 2009 for prices, it was $16 trillion. If you use 2012, it was $17 trillion. A difference of $1 trillion! So what's the "real" number then? There isn't any! No nation has a "real" GDP because every nation could literally have thousands of potential real GDPs in any given year depending on how you want to aggregate. Don't believe any of this? Check it out yourself. Here is a
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from the Federal Reserve of chained US GDP with a reference year of 2009. Here is another
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with a reference year of 2012. Compare the numbers. They're radically different. This is the nonsense that passes for serious discussion in modern economics. In reality, economists have no idea what productivity means beyond useless monetary aggregates (like GDP, capital, labor, etc, all of which they measure in the very same monetary units that concepts like productivity are supposed to explain in the first place).

Now you'll say, "but the government gives me one nice round number." That's because government economists pick an arbitrary weighting method and calculate real GDP from that. In the US, they're currently using 2012 as the reference year, then they'll go to 2015, 2018, etc (three-year cycles). But there's no compelling practical or theoretical reason for that choice. It's purely arbitrary. Basic point: real GDP is useless. If you want to get a sense for economic size or productivity, a better bet is energy consumption. Energy is actually measured through stable units, so it doesn't have these kinds of aggregation issues. On this count, China is by far the largest economy in the world.

Nominal GDP does have one thing going for it though: it's great for telling you about the compositional makeup of the economy (ie. in what sectors are people spending their money?). It just can't tell you about productivity because prices are not stable units.
 

Bill Blazo

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Empirical measurements only make sense when the units of measurement are stable over time and space.

To clarify this: measurements of "real" variables (like height, weight, mass, energy, production, etc) only make sense with stable units. Of course we can measure things from the nominal domain (like wages, prices, and profits), but those things do not have a reliable one-to-one correspondence with other variables of interest, like the ones mentioned above, in the "real domain."
 

Bright Sword

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There's no point in talking about "permanence" in geopolitics. But the forseeable trend is in this direction.
Mohsin 77,
The optimism of Indian foreign policy is to have the best of both the Russian and Western defense systems in the assumption that this equipment would be superior in the wars that could be fought with China and Pakistan.
Per the Indian media hype:
So India will get F-35s from the USA, S-400s from Russia, and all the high technology that comes with it.
The world stands with India and will arm and fund it to fight and destroy China and Pakistan.
There are Indian astrologers predicting China's doom and destruction of Pakistan by the end of this year.
Hyped media reports announce the USA had positioned B2 Spirit Bombers in India ( various versions say in the Indian ocean, some to Ladakh) to destroy China.
The delusions are increasing.
 

Bright Sword

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It’s a major market for Russian made military equipment.
For Russian junk yes, such as submarines whose hatches don't close before submerging and helicopters that don't integrate with air defense "friend or foe"identification systems and get shot down by their own missiles.
Russia is unlikely to sell India the real stuff to challenge China, at least in the near future.
 

Bright Sword

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So, from a Chinese perspective, what is the end goal here? What really prevents a formal international border from being established?
Didn't the document released after the recent summit between the Indian and Chinese foreign ministers in Moscow refer only to "borders" ?
Unless its been mistranslated there is no LAC anymore and there is a border as it stands. From available indications China is comfortable with the change of definition.
 
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