Ladakh Flash Point

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plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
caudaceus said:
Why India and over Tibet?
East Asia should provide better access to Beijing.
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Nobody in East Asia is stupid enough to want to fight China, never mind have delusions about annexing huge parts of China.

The plan isn’t for the US to fight China, it’s to trick India into fighting China.

The US can jump in, or stay out depending on how the Indians are doing.

If the Indians are winning, the Americans can pile in late and take all the glory as they always do in big fights; and if the Indians are loosing, well, good thing there are plenty of them to throw into the teeth of Chinese guns isn’t it? :rolleyes:
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Inst said:
Problem is, for the InAF, the J-11s have superior missile load-outs to the Su-30 MKIs, with both the PL-10s and PL-15s superior to the loadout on the Su-30 MKIs. The InAF could eventually import current or next-gen Russian AAMs that negate this advantage, but that'd take time.

I continue to think J-20 deployment to the Sino-Indian frontier is necessary, for the simple reason that the Chinese only have their qualitative advantage to protect them against Rafales. While the J-20 has strong advantages (stealth, jamming, better AEW&C support) over Rafales, when you convert it to J-11Bs vs Rafale, the advantage disappears. The Rafales are more maneuverable than the J-11Bs, the Rafales have more sophisticated, and likely par radar compared to the J-11Bs, and the Meteor vs PL-15 fight is a toss-up.

Yes, of course, the majority of the battle will be between Su-30s and J-11s, simply because both sides will have so many of them. But the decisive factor will be the J-20 vs the Rafale because J-11s vs Rafale isn't in the Chinese'' favor, and once the Rafales are taken down, either via anti-air base missile or J-20, the J-11s are now free to slaughter the Su-30MKIs.
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I suggest you tame down your hyperbole statements if you wish to be taken seriously. Slaughtering is a strong statement to make especially when you are only making a superficial case in support of your assertions.

Missile configuration load out is finite and more so when operating from high altitude airbases as with the Chinese in this situation. Just because there is a probable range advantage does not necessary equate to an exchange advantage. There is no historical record of a missile kill beyond 100 kms and the PL-15 will not be changing history. What PL-15 does is that it changes tactical deployment because of the expanded envelope that such a threat might present. The reason the PK falls as the range increase is because the party being targeted has a say in the outcome. The other party knows it is being targeted and will employ counter measures. Given the low PK of an extended range shot and the limited load out to draw from, the question is do you wish to waste your finite resource on an unproductive outcome?

I personally find the IAF acquisition process rather confusing to the extend being dysfunctional. There are several stories on the ECM suite that is mated to the SU-30 MKI. According to this version, the SU-30 MKI can employ a locally developed RWR system known as Tarang and the SPJ pod is Israeli based.

1595384224746.png

The SU-30 MKI's radar NO11M Bars can track 15 and engage 4 targets simultaneously . I estimate its radar can probably detect the J-11 from as far as 240 kms but will need to close the distance to engage. BTW, according to Indian news report in 2019, India ordered $700 million worth of more advanced Russian missiles including RVV-MD and RVV-SD. Separately, the locally developed Astra has been
test fired from the SU-30 MKI. This missile has a range of 110 kms and has a Ku-band active seeker.
1595384777037.png

Additionally, the ASRAAM is being prepared for service with the SU-30 MKI.

1595384904321.png

Finally, if I am correct most Chinese planes including the J-11's MAWS are still UV based. That will be a problem when pitted against modern AAM.
 
R

Red Moon

Junior Member
caudaceus said:
Why India and over Tibet?
East Asia should provide better access to Beijing.
Click to expand...
Bannon is nobody in the government now, but his advice on the 2020 elections has been that everything should be about China. So they are talking loud, announcing pointless sanctions, releasing fake news, and sending Covid-19 infected ships to the South China Sea. Why India, because something actually happened there and they want to associate it with Trump before Biden picks it up. No other country is going to smile at them over this kind of stuff in East Asia, even Japan.
 
hullopilllw

hullopilllw

Junior Member
Registered Member
localizer said:
The indians are salivating over this
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Is that plan serious. I dont see Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Philippines wanting any geopolitical tension over South China Sea, their focus is on building up trades and economic linkage to China's booming consumer market.

You can simply see how deeply Singapore's Temasek Holdings and GIC are with the Chinese economy.

Indonesia and Malaysia are literally growing due to Chinese investment.

Not forgetting US is threatening these nations with sanctions if they proceed on to collect digital tax from Google. The loopholes has been exploited for too long, it is only right for these companies that thrive on data collection to be taxed appropiately.
 
W

Waqar Khan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Biscuits said:
About the only chance the Rafale pilot would have is from overwhelming numbers or if the J-20 pilot makes huge mistakes.

Idk how many Rafale India will buy but if its 10x more than there are J-20 then they would be a serious threat. IRST as proven by Chinese and American exercises with 4/4.5 gen vs 5 gen doesn't solve everything, even if they can get close enough, the 5th gen aircraft could also avoid missiles or jam them. At that range, the 4.5gen aircraft is much more vulnerable as well, having marginally worse maneuverability, EW suite and much larger RCS.

In theory if a J-20 pilot let's himself be rushed by half a dozen IRST planes then they could be taken down. But there seems to be no reason for PLAAF to ever commit J-20s in such a way.
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Also add the factor of IAF pilots,its full of AbhiNonDone type warriors who paid a Mig 21 for a cup of tea in Pakistan
 
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