Ladakh Flash Point

localizer said:

I agree with he's using it politically, but whether or not they planned on sending Indian soldiers to die who knows.

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Either the Chinese didn't anticipate the Indian response (possible) or the Chinese screwed up. Oli in Nepal is about to get deposed over being too anti-India. There's Indian propaganda offices complaining that Pakistan is about to get isolated with China, but I'd say that's just Indian political masturbation.

After having studied the terrain, I don't actually think India poses such a threat to China via the Quad. When you consider the location of New Delhi, India is potentially another Taiwan or South Korea.

If China is seriously upset at Indian moves to try to contain China, China can simply move a bunch of DF-16s and DF-26s to the Tibetan Plateau. The DF-16s can keep a vast segment of India under threat of ballistic bombardment, and DF-26s can be used to threaten Indian attempts to use the Indian Navy to threaten Chinese shipping, given that DF-26s based in Tibet can cover almost all of India.

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I think my mistake here is that I've traditionally been too pro-India; as I've said elsewhere I am ethnic Chinese with vague connections to India, and I like Indians very much. But because of the terrain issue, India is neither a serious threat nor assailable to China.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry's attitude seems to have it right, this entire thing is a stupid sideshow. I'd venture that China set it up entirely to distract the Indians from Modi's coronavirus incompetence.

@Inst

You did imply Russia would bail out India by mentioning the activation of the Sino-Russian border. That is still a ridiculous proposition any way you look at it. And as far as your continuing repetition of invalidity ad nauseum I will simply stop responding to it, rather than waste more time with you. Not only are you not listening to what the other side is saying, you are now resorting to straw man fallacies (I never even implied that Pakistan should rely on Indian ineptness in the long term, in fact, I directly said the exact opposite.)

How can Russia help India? The geography makes it difficult.

India can beat China like Pakistan can beat India.

The Chinese have been bashing India repeatedly for not developing their country and focusing on ridiculous nationalistic adventures. But the same is true of Pakistan, and currently per capita Pakistani GDP is less than that of India.

If the relationship between Pakistan and India were like that of South Korea and North Korea (or Taiwan and China, since even today Taiwan is effectively a developed country with decent R&D capabilities in semiconductors, while China is only slowly catching up), with one highly developed and the other impoverished and primitive, Pakistan would actually be a viable horse to back in order to destabilize India and neutralize a threat in the region. But, as it turns out, Pakistan is not only significantly smaller than India, it's less developed economically. It's useful as an offset to India, but it can't really do anything to India other than shoot down the odd MiG-21.

localizer said:

How can Russia help India? The geography makes it difficult.

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China's fear is being surrounded. Russia, even with its antiquated military, can put military pressure on China and distract China from its core interest which is the Far Eastern region. If Russia will eventually unite with Europe and become its own independent pole, it's a problem because a Russia with EU economic power backing it can actually produce modern hardware in numbers.

For Russia, its only true strategic fear should be from the East Asia region. Russia has had traditionally used its Russian winter to protect itself, but guess how cold Harbin is? Sure, Russia is colder, but it's not severely colder than the northernmost parts of China, and moreover, Russia has a vast and undeveloped backcountry. Guess who's facing this backcountry? No, not the Europeans, it's the East Asians.

So, I mean, I expect the Sino-Russian alliance to break down eventually, but hopefully not for decades. By then, Chinese defenses against the United States should already have been moved into Taiwan and Japan (i.e, China reunifies with Taiwan and Japan is part of the Chinese sphere of influence), and China should have expanded massively enough that if the Russians want to put troops on the border, the Chinese can easily afford to put tanks and artillery on the border as well.

What's with these pages after pages of non-stop random stuff? Can we politely ask to stop all these BS?

Inst said:

I think my mistake here is that I've traditionally been too pro-India; as I've said elsewhere I am ethnic Chinese with vague connections to India, and I like Indians very much. But because of the terrain issue, India is neither a serious threat nor assailable to China.

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You wrote so much without even studying the map first, then what about history...mind you that terrain was the same in 1962, threat was considered serious and dealt with.

I don't expect full scale war either, but not because of terrain...

I lost my words.

Inst said:

currently per capita Pakistani GDP is less than that of India.

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When I said I will stop responding to you, I didn't mean I'd let you get away with talking smack. You are becoming a troll now and I'm going to treat you like one. First of all, in your infantile calculations, did you look at the poverty rate? It's 69% in India versus 24% in Pakistan. Indian economic gains do not 'trickle down' to its population, because of extreme inequality. The rich amass wealth and horde it in India. That's a recipe for destabilization in the long run.

... it can't really do anything to India other than shoot down the odd MiG-21.

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Again with the same idiotic drivel you were laying down a few pages ago. Well, I hope your Indian friends test your theory and try crossing the line again into Pakistani territory. We gave them ample opportunity last year, but it seems they're not as confident as you are. Their precious MKIs and Mirages bugged out without even firing a shot.

Mohsin77 said:

When I said I will stop responding to you, I didn't mean I'd let you get away with talking smack. You are becoming a troll now and I'm going to treat you like one. First of all, in your infantile calculations, did you look at the poverty rate? It's 69% in India versus 24% in Pakistan. Indian economic gains do not 'trickle down' to its population, because of extreme inequality. The rich amass wealth and horde it in India. That's a recipe for destabilization in the long run.



Again with the same idiotic drivel you were laying down a few pages ago. Well, I hope your Indian friends test your theory and try crossing the line again into Pakistani territory. We gave them ample opportunity last year, but it seems they're not as confident as you are.

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He/she/it/non-binary is definitely a troll. This thread is becoming unbearable to go through with all these random insults and non-sense.

Agreed.