Ladakh Flash Point

Kakyan said:

Update on US Navy FONOP in Indian EEZ:

US DoD has conducted similar operations in the EEZ of several countries like Pakistan, South Korea, Japan etc just last year alone.
So nothing new and no country in the region can claim high ground that US did not conduct such ops in their EEZ
So as long as US continues to do such FONOP in waters claimed by US allies like Japan, South Korea and also against India's adversaries like Pakistan and China, India has no problem with US FONOPS in Indian EEZ.

Thankfully US already regularly conducts FONOPS in Pakistan, China, Japan and South Korea waters.

US has conducted FONOPs against Japan, South Korea, North Korea, China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka.

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ougoah said:

Yuan dynasty was first time in China's history when Tibet became a part of it. Ladakh was always a part of Tibet, until where it stops being Tibet (China) and becomes "India" (the stateless, borderless general geographic expression because India didn't exist back then whereas the nation of China did). It just wasn't too clear where it stopped being Tibet and started being part of the old Mughal empire. That's meaningless a discussion now because like the Aztec nation borders, that nation which existed before British India, is two times removed from history. But therein lies the issue that make this a dispute.

Anyway... Yuan dynasty preceded so many European colonial states. If Tibet can be talked about as if it isn't part of China because China "only" conquered it under Mongol expansion in China's Yuan dynasty, then European colonial lands should also be returned to previous states? Various native Indian tribes for north American and so on? It has no more legitimacy (in fact less) than Tibet as China.

Tibet has been China for centuries, nearly a millennia. Just like it's ridiculous and unreasonable to ask all European descendents to leave conquered lands they have been building up for centuries, it's also ridiculous to ask China to give Tibet independence for no more reason than "China government bad bad". They can and should legitimately tell whoever says that to go get fucked. Can I say Australian government treated aborigines poorly and Australia should give all of its western half to natives? Or the Euro settlers performed decades upon decades of ethnic cleansing on native Americans and they should now lose Texas and California at least to Mexico? LOL How would the US gov take those concerns and statements if it came officially from many of its enemies?

Ladakh has always been administered under Tibet and under China by extension. China lost influence in Tibet during a part of its history when Europeans invaded China and colonised parts of it. That's not China's fault for succumbing to someone else's evil. Lessons learned though. China will not do to India what Europeans did to both China and India. But on these sorts of matters, it will consider the position of the nation in question and determine the correct decision. Wrt this dispute, China considers India much more a negative force to it than a neutral or positive one and so even the remaining 20% is being withheld. Does China want the 20%? If it can of course why wouldn't it but it doesn't want to inflame this region now. It's got little to nothing to gain from it while India does. China has more to lose in flaring up these issues with India. It has much more pressing issues to deal with than India and a 20% of a dispute that is uninhabitable and useless.

India has no claim here. It has no historic claim because India is not the Mughal empire and India. It's borders never existed until the mid 20th century. Once Pakistan split, it had even less grounds for claiming these parts of Ladakh.

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twineedle said:

The Mughal Empire only administered Ladakh for a short period of time, and that too more as a protetorate. After the Mughals fell Ladakh was adminstered by the Sikhs and then the Dogras, the latter of whom ruled it until 1947. The last Dogra Maharaj of Kashmir who controlled Ladakh, including Aksai Chin, acceded to India, so that is enough to give the Republic of India a claim.

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Xsizor said:

View attachment 70931
Gogra 17 A
Contrasting with the claims of Mitra.
This representation is more detailed.

Merely asking where all those patrol points go.
PP19 to PP23

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Xsizor said:

Not enough.
Does India claim that region was the question. No Indian map lays a claim to that region. Maybe Jai Hind map does but not the much contested Indian map.

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twineedle said:

So far, there is no evidence that India has differing perceptions of the LAC at Galwan, so the lac is exactly as it was before 2020. Unless both the US Office of the Geographer and the CIA have been wrong this whole time lol.

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The clash last summer happened because China unsuccessfully tried to shift the lac westwards towards its original perception, shown below.
Despite that attempt, the LAC is currently where it has been for decades.
View attachment 70918

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twineedle said:

Please show me a statement in which the Indian gov. has identified pps 19 to 23 as problems.

Detresfa's image actually corroborates Iyer's analysis and discredits Shukla.

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twineedle said:

What region are you talking about? I thought we are talking about Ladakh and Aksai Chin

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Xsizor said:

Stop regurgitating a map that has no relevance to the discussion of LAC at Galwan. What you are showing are purported claims.

It seems like you can't wrap your head around that - LAC and claims are different.

But according to you, after the war, India obediently placed the LAC where China claimed before 1962.

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