Korean War 70 years later Win Lose and A draw

solarz

Brigadier
Who do you think started the Korean War first?
From MSM, it's usually said that the North attacked the South first. But then there are some sources that said the South (maybe planned to) attacked the North first.

Does anyone have any declassified documents regarding this?

The North attacked South first.

Kim Il-sung wanted to unify the peninsula. He first sought support from China, but Mao told him to wait. He then went around Mao and talked to Stalin, who told him to go ahead.

In the end, China sacrificed tens of thousands of lives and lost the opportunity to recover Taiwan, while the USSR mostly provided material support.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I doubt the Soviet Union would have been as willing to grant China licensed production of the MiG-21 fighters, or T-54 tanks to China if it wasn't for Korea. I also think an invasion of Taiwan right then would have been really costly and could have failed. Just try reading about the attempt to invade Kinmen.
 
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sutton999

New Member
Registered Member
The North attacked South first.

Kim Il-sung wanted to unify the peninsula. He first sought support from China, but Mao told him to wait. He then went around Mao and talked to Stalin, who told him to go ahead.

In the end, China sacrificed tens of thousands of lives and lost the opportunity to recover Taiwan, while the USSR mostly provided material support.
Kim didn't make the call whether he wanted it or not.

USA had dozens of nukes while Soviet had none. USA had the option to launch a nuclear attack to annihilate the Soviet and its nuclear potential. That must be sth. constantly in Stalin's head.

That is why Soviet needed the Korea war. It will also force China deep into Soviet camps with WW3 preparation mentality.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Kim didn't make the call whether he wanted it or not.

USA had dozens of nukes while Soviet had none. USA had the option to launch a nuclear attack to annihilate the Soviet and its nuclear potential. That must be sth. constantly in Stalin's head.

That is why Soviet needed the Korea war. It will also force China deep into Soviet camps with WW3 preparation mentality.

The Soviets may very well have encouraged Kim to attack the South, but in the end, Kim was the one who made the decision.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Kim didn't make the call whether he wanted it or not.

USA had dozens of nukes while Soviet had none. USA had the option to launch a nuclear attack to annihilate the Soviet and its nuclear potential. That must be sth. constantly in Stalin's head.

That is why Soviet needed the Korea war. It will also force China deep into Soviet camps with WW3 preparation mentality.
Not true. The Soviets detonated their first nuke in 1949.
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The Korean War was between 1950 and 1953.

The Soviets did have nukes by then.
 
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Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
I doubt the Soviet Union would have been as willing to grant China licensed production of the MiG-21 fighters, or T-54 tanks to China if it wasn't for Korea. I also think an invasion of Taiwan right then would have been really costly and could have failed. Just try reading about the attempt to invade Kinmen.
In 1949, the US was still debating their strategy on Taiwan. Declassified CIA documents show that the US was caught completely flat footed by the war in Korea. The CIA was predicting instead the invasion of Yugoslavia by the Soviet Union in 1950, lol.

They had already at the time arrived to a firm conclusion that without US assistance Taiwan would fall under communist control and concluded that this would be seriously detrimental to US interests. One of the possible policies they considered was supporting Taiwanese autonomy and making Taiwan a UN protectorate. However, this was contingent on the Taiwanese being able to stage a successful rebellion, which they rated as very unlikely and therefore not pursued further.

I don’t think there was any scenario in which China invades Taiwan in 1950-1953 and the US does not intervene. This was further buttressed by US statements such as: “From the legal standpoint, Taiwan is not part of the Republic of China. Pending a Japanese peace treaty, the island remains occupied territory in which the US has proprietary interests.”

MacArthur was the loudest in voicing the critical strategic importance of Taiwan:
“The front line of the Far East Command as well as the western strategic frontier of the United States rests today on the littoral islands extending from the Aleutians through the Philippine Archipelago. Geographically and strategically Formosa is an integral part of this offshore position which in the event of hostilities can exercise a decisive degree of control of military operations along the periphery of Eastern Asia. In the event of a war United States striking forces based on this line would have the capability to interdict the limited means of communication available to the Communists and deny or materially reduce the ability of the USSR to exploit the natural resources of East and Southeast Asia. This essential capability on the part of the United States is dependent to a large degree upon the retention of Formosa by a friendly or a neutral power.”

“As a result of its geographic location and base potential, utilization of Formosa by a military power hostile to the United States may either counterbalance or overshadow the strategic importance of the central and southern flank of the United States front line position. Formosa in the hands of the Communists can be compared to an unsinkable aircraft carrier and submarine tender ideally located to accomplish Soviet offensive strategy and at the same time checkmate counteroffensive operations by United States Forces based on Okinawa and the Philippines.”
 
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sutton999

New Member
Registered Member
In 1949, the US was still debating their strategy on Taiwan. Declassified CIA documents show that the US was caught completely flat footed by the war in Korea. The CIA was predicting instead the invasion of Yugoslavia by the Soviet Union in 1950, lol.
No, look at the map, a five-year-old could figure this out at 1900AD.
How to contain the land power of East Asia - China.

There was zero chance unless a pro-communist coup took over Taiwan, PLA couldn't even take Kinmen by force.
 
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Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
No, look at the map, a five-year-old could figure this out at 1900AD.
How to contain the land power of East Asia - China.

There was zero chance unless a pro-communist coup took over Taiwan, PLA couldn't even take Kinmen by force.
Yeah, that was my point. Any attempt by the PLA to retake Taiwan was doomed from the start. At best, they could pull off a landing and then get cut off and stranded when the USN inevitably intervenes.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yeah, that was my point. Any attempt by the PLA to retake Taiwan was doomed from the start. At best, they could pull off a landing and then get cut off and stranded when the USN inevitably intervenes.
Were US to attempt an invasion during the era China didn't have much military built up, chances are that they would retaliate either on land (starting Korean front again) or escalate to nuclear use.

There's 0 chance any Chinese leader, especially Mao out of all, would surrender territory to American "little green men".
 

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Were US to attempt an invasion during the era China didn't have much military built up, chances are that they would retaliate either on land (starting Korean front again) or escalate to nuclear use.

There's 0 chance any Chinese leader, especially Mao out of all, would surrender territory to American "little green men".
I don’t follow. Where would the US attempt an invasion?
 
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