This is what I was taught in school. We just have to accept that given our different educational and cultural backgrounds we will invariably have irreconciable views on certain thorny issues that are a source of contention to this day. And it’s nothing particular about China. We would reach a similar impasse if you happened to be Russian.
Korean War 70 years later Win Lose and A draw
- Thread starter TerraN_EmpirE
- Start date
Yes. Agreed that's what you've been taught at school. Agreed also what I've been taught at school differs to yours.
But it doesn't mean we can learn new and different views. Also there's so much information out there. It won't take you a few minutes to find that what you've been taught at school is in fact, incorrect.
We can all bias and have an agenda. But your original assertion was based on a incorrect time line which can be crossed checked and double checked.
Your original assertion was that PRC China was in the wrong because....... When in fact PRC China was never recognised as the legitimate representative of whole of China by any western powers till after the 1970s. So how the heck can it violate any agreement when no body recognises it as a country? This isn't about what's being taught. This is about logic and timing of the event. The logic is you can't claim PRC China of violate something when official, it doesn't exist.
Then you went on the same argument about Taiwan. Again how can PRC China violate the Cairo declaration when it doesn't exist. Proven by the fact ROC China was given Taiwan and the SCS islands as per under the Cairo declaration.
You really can't have your cake and eat It!
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Considering that the UN in 1950 was only 60 members out of 89 states with no other body like it and the CCP had only been in power for a year at the time of their action in the Korean War. I think your argument fails on a few points and sounds a bit revisionist.
You are just quibbling over semantics. In fact, the Soviet Union recognized the PRC as a nation in the Sino-Soviet Friendship Treaty of 1950.
The statement from Secretary Acheson that I quoted dates from September 1950, before China intervened in Korea. He was responding to accusations from the CCP and the Soviet Union that the USA is dragging its feet or even reneging on its promise to carry out the Cairo Declaration and restore Taiwan to China. This after Truman ordered the neutralization of Taiwan following the North's invasion of the South in 1950. The CCP considered itself the sole legitimate government of China, following the proclamation of the People's Republic in 1949. Thereby, the CCP has taken upon itself all the benefits, claims and obligations any previous government of China had made. It's as simple as that.
solarz
Brigadier
So you're basically conceding that the UN had no legitimacy at the time.
so your argument is it is ok for the US to intervene in the Korean civil war but not ok for China to get involved?
Gee. If you think im debating semantics. Then it shows how much you know about geopolitics.
First of all, you keep on about China and the Cairo declaration. I do hope you realises it was the nation's present at the Cairo declaration that agrees the return of Taiwan to China without condition to what happens to Korea. The nations present includes ROC China and your Soviet union that recognises PRC China at a later date. But at the time they recognised ROC China. And agreed to return Taiwan to ROC China. This is all documented. You can't argue with that. Subsequently, the Soviet switch recognition is on the Soviet alone.
The Soviet and USA also decided to take Korea from Japan in order to calf up Korea into two. The North and the South.
The US that actually control the South Korea and Taiwan are the power that matters. So the USA have already handed Taiwan to ROC China immediately after the defeat of the ROC China in 1949. So all this talk about PRC China made a mess of their claim on Taiwan because of what happened in Korea in 1952, 3 years later.
All this talk about USA dragging its feet. Is this some kind of a joke. Got news for you. China in the form of ROC are already sitting cormfortably with its feet up by the homely fire in Taiwan. I'm not sure which bits of Taiwan still not in China's hand you don't understand. The Soviet may recognised PRC China, but the Soviet is not the one that's going to hand over Taiwan or Korea to anyone. That is the fact and a reality check. Period!
This is a thread about history. I posted statements from top level US and UK officials, as they saw the situation in 1950 and 1951, respectively. I did not give my opinion nor interpretation. Also, I admit I am no expert in geopolitics. Engineering is my trade. History is my hobby.
It is your interpretation that the return of Taiwan was not conditional on a free and unified Korea. The quoted statements from UK and US government officials imply that it was.
Well, the historical records indicate that the US and UK did not agree with such interpretation.
In 1951, almost 6 years since ROC has been administering Taiwan, the Supreme Commander of Allied forces and military governor of Japan, gen. McArthur stated: “legalistically Formosa is still a part of the Empire of Japan”.
I’ve seen historical documents from the period of Korean War, stating that the US has proprietary interests on Taiwan. That’s because they considered Taiwan to be under military occupation of the Allies, with the US as the principal occupying power.
Statment from the UK in 1955:
That same year Churchill opines the Cairo Declaration is dead and that sovereignty of Taiwan is yet to be determined.
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Guys lets be serious. Korean war was a massive ideological/political warfare. Communist influence sphere VS Capitalist one. If you don't insert this factor you just analyzing formalities
Of course he did! If KMT had won Chinese civil war there will be no problem to hand Taiwan to nationalists. But CCP won and Taiwan needed protection from Communists. That McArthur's claim was a nice dribble to justify another Korea style UN-US intervention if the PLA was to attack. It was not technically an endo-Chinese matter!
EDIT. USSR was the first country to recognise PRC. Not someday in 50's, but the very next day Mao declared the foundation of PRC
Of course he did! If KMT had won Chinese civil war there will be no problem to hand Taiwan to nationalists. But CCP won and Taiwan needed protection from Communists. That McArthur's claim was a nice dribble to justify another Korea style UN-US intervention if the PLA was to attack. It was not technically an endo-Chinese matter!
EDIT. USSR was the first country to recognise PRC. Not someday in 50's, but the very next day Mao declared the foundation of PRC