Ender Wiggin
Junior Member
wait a second weren't you banned? Just that I remember that a Vincelee was banned, what that a different person or were you unbanned?
Jian's vs F-22/F-35??
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renmin said:
That really depends on the commander: survivability vs. higher payloads. But in the early stages of a shooting war, prudent commanders would use internal only weapons loadout. As the enemy's defences became degraded is when you would use your external weapons stores. It its a nice option to have. F-22 can also be fitted with external hardpoints.
Loading missiles externally would increase the F-35's RCS quite a bit, but it would still be much more stealthy than anything China has due to the more stealthy radar (LPI radar), more stealthy engine to both radar and IRST, shaping and better RAM coating.
KS-172 is just a long range AAM. It is useful against AWACS, transports and slow manuvering planes like Mig-31, but that's about it.
KS-172 is just a long range AAM. It is useful against AWACS, transports and slow manuvering planes like Mig-31, but that's about it.
darth sidious
Banned Idiot
Ender Wiggin said:
this vince is actualy "yue the mighty" not the orignialy which is a complete retard
and no the B-2 has never been down in combat. if it is ever shot down there will be wide spread celebration in Iraq.
PS the B-2 uses cruise missiles not free fall iron bombs so there is no way Flak can ever shoot them down
darth sidious
Banned Idiot
renmin said:
I think your the one that got it mixed up the B-52 is famoous for its carpet bombing not eh B-2 risking such an expansive bomber is low-tech mission is not a good idea unless the opposition has no airdefence whatso ever using the B-2 to drop iron bombs is anot very wise
I personally don't think any Jian fighter can take on F-22 or F-35. The low RCS, AESA radars, high level training, and combat support give them definitive edges. And as of this time, F-16, F-15, FA/18 have the edge for now due to AESA, training, support, and weapons. But J-10 shows it is pretty much as capable to these in most respects and would be a very tough foe. J-11 also. The above is just my opinion.
The B-2 was used over Iraq to drop free-fall munitions FYI. It can carry 80 500 lb. bombs. But yes, it can also use cruise missiles.
BTW, I hope China's CMC leaders would have better judgement regarding the GPS constellation. U.S. response would indeed be heavy and punishing.
As far as the main topic, I even think China's aircraft designers don't expect J-10/J-11 to be as stealthy or to be as capable as an F-22/F-35. I think that's why they're planning J-XX for the long-term as a counter.
The B-2 was used over Iraq to drop free-fall munitions FYI. It can carry 80 500 lb. bombs. But yes, it can also use cruise missiles.
BTW, I hope China's CMC leaders would have better judgement regarding the GPS constellation. U.S. response would indeed be heavy and punishing.
As far as the main topic, I even think China's aircraft designers don't expect J-10/J-11 to be as stealthy or to be as capable as an F-22/F-35. I think that's why they're planning J-XX for the long-term as a counter.
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Roger604
Senior Member
I don't think a war taking place around China's periphery is going to involve even numbers. The defensive advantage is just going to be overwhelming. As for training and support, even if it's not as good as USAF, I doubt China neglects its training.
If the US throws all its airforce at China, it will probably suffer roughly 1:1 casualties. Which means that by the time the US destroys all the J-10's, J-11's and SAM's, it will have very little left to fight the swarms of older Jians.
If the US throws all its airforce at China, it will probably suffer roughly 1:1 casualties. Which means that by the time the US destroys all the J-10's, J-11's and SAM's, it will have very little left to fight the swarms of older Jians.
Roger604 said:
Well, you're right about a defensive advantage. But because of that, any action of USAF/USN units would most likely first involve the elimination or degradation of Chinese sortie rates and air defense assets. Not just by aircraft. I don't know the exact target selection or categories but I do know that it would definitely involve supplies that support sortie rates, SAM suppression, and command facilities. I basically worked in this field in the military and know. It's unlikely that the USAF would just throw it's assets into this type of foray, especially since they have the offensive advantage. That means they pick the time and place for attack and can pretty much force the defending units to move assets based upon attacking movements. That gives them the option to clear areas of defense very rapidly. Chinese defenders can't be everywhere at once.
I highly doubt a 1:1 ratio. PLAAF/PLAN aircraft do not have AESA. They do not have the experience utilizing AWACS type aircraft. They do not have sufficient supporting electronic warfare assets. As far as training, I know China's military pays attention to training. But do they get the 300+ hours a year every pilot in the USAF/USN/USMC get? Does China have anything comparable to a Red Flag (simulating real world battle conditions)? Do any of China's pilots have any combat experience? How many have actually seen the fog of war? China would kill some American aircraft, yes. But American pilots would be getting a kill ratio more like 6:1. Maybe even up to 8:1. With F-22 and other aircraft being controlled effectively offshore by E-3/E-2, using AESA radars, and electronic support, you can bet these experienced American pilots will have a definite advantage. They're almost guaranteed first shot in any engagement. Alot of these fighters will be escorting bombers enroute to eliminate or degrade airbases, fuel supplies, command facilities, and SAM's. If China is going to use older Jian's, they better use them quickly. If they waited too long, they may not get a chance at all. And these older Jian's are no match for F-16, F-15, FA/18. And they are easily blinded via electronic means.
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Roger604
Senior Member
Sea Dog said:
I seriously doubt cruise missiles are a threat. F-22's and F-35's are a threat, yes. But not cruise missiles. The HQ-17 and CIWS are very effective at defending key military assets from cruise missile attacks. See the Sinodefence page on Tor-M1. You can't protect everything you're right, but there's no point for US to use cruise missiles to attack a village.
Sea Dog said:
Even if Chinese early warning capabilities aren't as advanced as the US, they're good enough. Look at all the different types of AWACS and other AEW planes China produces indigenously. Without a doubt it can provide 24-hour cover. Not to mention satellite reconnaisance and UAV's!
Sea Dog said:
The AESA is almost ready to be fielded, as far as I understand. As far as experience / training goes... yes the US has an advantage but if the Chinese forces are as adept at learning the equipment as the engineers are at making them, they are not far behind the US.
Sea Dog said:
Well the US does not have a monopoly on electronic warfare, nor on technology in general, so an advantage is a matter of degree, not clearly decisive.
Besides, I think China would be willing to trade off 6 old Jian's for an F-22. Even an F-22 strike force flying into China would be heading into a nightmare of AWACS, long-wave radar, advanced SAM's, J-10's, J-11's and older Jian's for good measure.
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